How has this country not imploded?

[antipodean]

Wish I shared your optimism but the total failure to have even the most basic level of order meant that nobody got what they wanted today and everybody had to make do with second best. Not to mention a bill for damage to public and private infrastructure and another day of lost productivity to top it all off. And for what? An obsessively anti-authority popular don’t-tell-me-what-to-do ideology? I mean how hard is it to stand behind a line or barrier and just wait.

What we saw was predictably Argentina - improvised, emotional, disorganized, out on a whim and devoid of any responsibility (and of course there is a beauty in that on a human level, but don’t expect that to translate to a serious country in terms of society, economy and governance as those same humans procreate, vote, buy and sell).

IMO - the government should have curbed their enthusiasm before declaring a nationwide holiday, planning a last minute homecoming parade, and putting up the blue and white bunting around the casa rosada so soon after the event while emotions are riding high. Instead they should have spread out the celebrations and feriados over more time and space. For example organize a victory tour starting in Ushuaia and working their way back up Buenos Aires over the course of a week. But I guess that doesn’t work so well for the propaganda machine or requires some actual brain-work to plan.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

I remember when we won the world cup in 1986 and it was the same without the holiday and it was a mess. It makes no sense in Argentina to try to stop people when they want to be in the street because the public space is public and people understand it, not even bombing people in 1955 worked out neither the dictators were able to deal with a bunch of stubborn ladies who wanted to walk in circles at May Square during a genocidal.

 

[antipodean]

public space is public and people understand it

If the majority of people understood that then they would understand that it is the members of the public that have the first and foremost duty of care to maintain order in public spaces for the common good of the public. (E.g. the basics such as don’t litter, don’t vandalize, don’t block public trough-fares etc.)

 

[Traveler]

The financial dry rot is so advanced it just needs a good push to bring it all crashing down.

Are you referring to Argentina or the US?

 

[Ries]

Seems to me like this was amazingly peaceful, calm, and happy- compared to, say, when a US team wins, and the fans start fires, beat each other up, and damaged historic structures, as in Seattle, when they won the Super Bowl in 2014. This happens all the time in the US, although, usually, a few people manage to get shot, as well. https://metro.co.uk/2018/02/05/here...ed-after-sporting-success-and-defeat-7289493/

 

[Ries]

I guess the Argentines should emulate the English, eh? 20,000 fans riot in Paris, and fight with police, get tear gassed. Much more civilized. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/tear-gas-fired-football-fans-28705338

 

[Rich One]

It reminds me of when my cats bite their own tails then act shocked that it hurts lol

Today was quintessentially Argentine; it was everything... interesting? about living in Argentina in a single day, and maybe this is a hot take, but it makes me optimistic for the future in a certain way that all things considered, and compared to other countries, things could have gone much, much worse, and the country/city didn't implode.

• Argentina won a World Cup and millions of people came together in person to celebrate with very little notice
• The transit system managed to bring millions of people into/around the city at levels that were never seen before in the Buenos Aires' history
• Over 10% of the country's entire population could be found on 9 de Julio, 25 de Mayo, Riccheri/Dellepiane/General Paz, or Libertador/Paseo del Bajo at the same time, and the bridges didn't collapse, there wasn't a mass crushing, a terrorist attack, or rioting
• While still a tragedy, only 1 person died today that we know of, and it was a kid that fell from a roof on Sunday night who finally succumbed to his injuries
• Even though AySA bills have skyrocketed compared to what most Argentines can afford, I lots of my neighbors sharing their water with strangers to fill up bottles or cool people down
• The only "major" damage appears to be some street lights/signs were stolen, there were some B&Es/robberies/pickpocketing, and random petty vandalism such as stealing tires, breaking windows, and spray paint tagging
• The littering is probably the worst I've ever seen aside from a garbage strike in Napoli, and I saw people pissing everywhere, but it's going to rain this weekend so that should take care of that, and I assume the city will manage to clean things up eventually litter wise
• The team was successfully evacuated by helicopter
• Even though millions of people didn't get to see them, again, people didn't lose their shit and riot, and people are just having a block party outside my apt
• Only 31 people were injured out of 5+ Million
• The only violent incident was the ongoing evicting of hinchas from inside the Obelisk

Don't get me wrong, we couldn't even manage to successfully pull off a ticker tape parade as a city/province/country, Alberto once again is left standing alone and embarrassed as his own party didn't support the holiday DNU and the team didn't want to be pictured with him, and now you have a Tapia, D'Elía, Cerruti, Berni, and the Campora all at each other's throats despite them all supposedly being Peronists, but considering how today could have unfolded, and how familiar we all are with the quilombo that can be living here, it went a lot better than I would have guessed.

Again, willing to accept this is a hot take compared to the rest of your guys' feelings on the matter.

La Nación opinion piece with the opposite take of my own

Quilombo, excellent piece , well balanced and accurate . A few dozen chemical baths for 5 million ? Feel sorry for women's needs..! to complete the initially designed route would have taken another 10 hours at 3 km/hour speed .
Why it didn't explode , only God knows.
As you mentioned I feared for the freeway loops mechanical resistance, perhaps not designed for millions marching at unison. (Engineering critical vibration concern). Recently a bridge in India collapsed when an inaugural mob marched over it .
Cheers

 

[antipodean]

Seems to me like this was amazingly peaceful, calm, and happy- compared to, say, when a US team wins, and the fans start fires, beat each other up, and damaged historic structures, as in Seattle, when they won the Super Bowl in 2014. This happens all the time in the US, although, usually, a few people manage to get shot, as well. https://metro.co.uk/2018/02/05/here...ed-after-sporting-success-and-defeat-7289493/

I'm not sure one can call it amazingly peaceful and calm compared to other testosterone filled football mass events elsewhere in the world. I'd say it was about the same, where some marginals act badly and cause damage and injury. And it wasn't only a few isolated events. As this was an event of millions of people, combined with the BA-centric media coverage, the deeds of these hooligans simply get lost in the coverage of the scale of the event... plus the fact that this kind of thing is 100% expected by everyone here so hardly news worthy/ shocking. Could have been worse? It could always be worse, but no point trying to glaze over these acts to say "X" place is way worse than here. It was not a shining example of Argentines behaving well or showing the world they can pull off mass celebrations better than anyone else. What it does show however is that Argentines are resigned to the fact that it "just the way it is" and don't bother to raise an eyebrow over it.

Let's make a list of a few headlines to show:

• 21 police injured, 14 arrests at one incident the obelisco alone (that also involved tear gas and vandalism....)
• 189 injuries requiring ambulance attention
• A bank robbery 200 meters from the obelisco
• Looting of shops
• mass robbery of car tires
• police trucks attacked
• many street robberies and fights
• Acts of vandalism of public buildings not only limited to BA

 

[TWB103]

I'm not sure one can call it amazingly peaceful and calm compared to other testosterone filled football mass events elsewhere in the world. I'd say it was about the same, where some marginals act badly and cause damage and injury. And it wasn't only a few isolated events. As this was an event of millions of people, combined with the BA-centric media coverage, the deeds of these hooligans simply get lost in the coverage of the scale of the event... plus the fact that this kind of thing is 100% expected by everyone here so hardly news worthy/ shocking. Could have been worse? It could always be worse, but no point trying to glaze over these acts to say "X" place is way worse than here. It was not a shining example of Argentines behaving well or showing the world they can pull off mass celebrations better than anyone else. What it does show however is that Argentines are resigned to the fact that it "just the way it is" and don't bother to raise an eyebrow over it.

Let's make a list of a few headlines to show:

• 21 police injured, 14 arrests at one incident the obelisco alone (that also involved tear gas and vandalism....)
• 189 injuries requiring ambulance attention
• A bank robbery 200 meters from the obelisco
• Looting of shops
• mass robbery of car tires
• police trucks attacked
• many street robberies and fights
• Acts of vandalism of public buildings not only limited to BA

Yesterday was so close to going spectacularly wrong and morphing into a mass uprising against the economy and government. The politicians knew that and thats why they kept quiet as possible. The players/AFA already snubbed them. The authorities were utterly powerless. I was curious at the players lack for concern of the danger they could have been in.

 

[elhombresinnombre]

I remember when we won the world cup in 1986 and it was the same without the holiday and it was a mess. It makes no sense in Argentina to try to stop people when they want to be in the street because the public space is public and people understand it, not even bombing people in 1955 worked out neither the dictators were able to deal with a bunch of stubborn ladies who wanted to walk in circles at May Square during a genocidal.

I can remember when, just like the other public buildings on that square, the Casa Rosada fronted directly onto the Plaza de Mayo. Does this mean that the security fencing at the front has no legitimacy?