How many of us are still here?

[Ries]

I am in the USA now, an MY expensas, for comparable quality items, are more in the USA.
I recently bought a mini-split fria calor in BA. About 700,000 pesos, in March.
I am getting a similar model delivered in 2 days in the USA- it was $1900 from Costco, or $3000 from normal builders supply.
Same capacity, if anything the Argentine brand is better.

I am shocked at how expensive any trip to the grocery is here- compared to my shopping at verdulerias and carnicerias in BA.
Dunno about percentages, but its pricy.

My utility bills in the USA are double, at the least.
There are certainly some things cheaper here.
Mostly chinese made brand names.
But the upcoming 145% tariff may change that.

Rents- you cannot believe how high they are where I, and my kids live.
I am in a rural area, I have one kid in Seattle and one in NYC.
In seattle, my sons GF has a one bedroom apartment that costs 2000 a month, and its considered so cheap that she feels she shouldnt even think of moving...

It all depends on how you live, how you make money, and many more factors, but for us, as two retired people, BA is cheaper, better quality of life, and much less stressful. We walk, take public transportation, and uber.
In the USA, its impossible to live without a car. and insurance, and gas is not cheap. average nafta price where I live is $4.31 a gallon right now.

 

[chris]

I am in the USA now, an MY expensas, for comparable quality items, are more in the USA.
I recently bought a mini-split fria calor in BA. About 700,000 pesos, in March.
I am getting a similar model delivered in 2 days in the USA- it was $1900 from Costco, or $3000 from normal builders supply.
Same capacity, if anything the Argentine brand is better.

I am shocked at how expensive any trip to the grocery is here- compared to my shopping at verdulerias and carnicerias in BA.
Dunno about percentages, but its pricy.

My utility bills in the USA are double, at the least.
There are certainly some things cheaper here.
Mostly chinese made brand names.
But the upcoming 145% tariff may change that.

Rents- you cannot believe how high they are where I, and my kids live.
I am in a rural area, I have one kid in Seattle and one in NYC.
In seattle, my sons GF has a one bedroom apartment that costs 2000 a month, and its considered so cheap that she feels she shouldnt even think of moving...

It all depends on how you live, how you make money, and many more factors, but for us, as two retired people, BA is cheaper, better quality of life, and much less stressful. We walk, take public transportation, and uber.
In the USA, its impossible to live without a car. and insurance, and gas is not cheap. average nafta price where I live is $4.31 a gallon right now.

You can live in cities like New York, Philadelphia, Boston, Washington DC without a car - and I believe in San Francisco too. I am assuming of course that you live in a central area.

 

[Ries]

You can live in cities like New York, Philadelphia, Boston, Washington DC without a car - and I believe in San Francisco too. I am assuming of course that you live in a central area.

I live on a farm, a half hour from town. No public transportation to speak of.
MY Sube card is useless.

But one son lives in NYC with no car, he takes subways and citibikes, but his daily expenses are high. studio apartments are 2 grand in NYC. and thats rare and hard to find.
The other lives in Seattle, and, no, you cant really live there without a car. He works 2 jobs, one he can take light rail to, the other you must drive.

 

[nikad]

When we visited the US last Feb FL, SC, NC, GA I did not think it was cheap at all. Better quality items, yes, but groceries, utilities, entertainment, etc was way more expensive. Then again, you have to think in terms of earning a US salary to measure the cost of living there. Argentina makes sense most of the time on foreign income, but try that on just local income.

 

[Quilombo]

Did any of the cheaper "things" that you saved money on in the US include groceries in a supermarket?

Yup, and medications, and OTC stuff even like shampoo or antiperspirant. Obviously things like eggs are cheaper here, but I think the quality of things is what's important too. There are 3rd/4th tier brands that are more affordable, sure, but the quality begins to decline greatly at least this is the case with pasta for example.

My impression is that those expats who stay are usually married to Argentines who don't want to leave. I can't see how current prices can justify all the inconveniences of living in such an unstable country when there are European destinations that cost less and have much more to offer.

This was us until a couple of months ago when my husband came home one day and randomly said "Qué país de mierda, por fin empiezo a entender por qué te molesta que vivamos aquí. todo es caro y nada funciona." I was like, well, yes, this is what I've been saying lol

All his family is here, and he's spent his entire life in Argentina, but he's begun to see that the stability is just never coming, so what's the point of these boom and bust cycles that just get more severe and worse?

This is exactly why I am considering Colombia, I can get a lot of what you get in the US in terms of cheap goods and travel for way less than here. Plus, I'm married to Colombian Argentine, so either here of there works.

Who knows how long high prices here will last, if they continue to go up or the bubble bursts.

This is where I'm stuck - the crash will come, prices have to come back to reality (likely due to a massive devaluation like always) the question is when, and I don't think sitting around and waiting and living through another one just for the possibility things might normalize at some distant point in the future is a smart idea for us considering our medium to longterm goals in life.

I should clarify for folks that I don't think the US is cheap, rather that Argentina is expensive in every currency, especially when taking the minimum wage and average wages here into consideration, that's the real problem, and what I was trying to point to with the Coca Cola prices: Argentines don't make even a quarter of what Americans earn, yet the local cost for a locally produced good is almost double the US' price, it makes no sense. If Argentina was Singapore or something where everything is basically imported from Malaysia or Australia I'd understand, but there's no reason for things to cost the way they do here, and it gets worse the more you start to look at neighboring countries and other countries with similar development status.

 

[LuckyLuke]

When we visited the US last Feb FL, SC, NC, GA I did not think it was cheap at all. Better quality items, yes, but groceries, utilities, entertainment, etc was way more expensive. Then again, you have to think in terms of earning a US salary to measure the cost of living there. Argentina makes sense most of the time on foreign income, but try that on just local income.

This. Both countries are relatively expensive, but when you factor in the average salary levels you begin to see just how insane Argentine costs have become. I will say however that both countries have it's pros and cons cost wise. While Argentina has higher costs for retail products, it has a much more affordable service sector.

I recall being shocked that an Argentine plumber/electrician/architect will happily go to your house, assess the issue and provide a quote free of charge. In the US you will get a $100 service charge just to shake hands with someone and you can forget an Architect. In Texas I was charged over $600 to fix a toilet leak. Getting a landscaping company to visit was impossible unless I was prepared to spend $10,000. I needed a quote to replace my entire tile floor ($14,000+ job) and I couldn't even get a visit from 3 companies. A gas specialist wanted to charge me $300 extra to use an electrical gas detection wand instead of a bottle of water/soap. Just a miserable, miserable experience hiring professionals there.

 

[nikad]

This. Both countries are relatively expensive, but when you factor in the average salary levels you begin to see just how insane Argentine costs have become. I will say however that both countries have it's pros and cons cost wise. While Argentina has higher costs for retail products, it has a much more affordable service sector.

I recall being shocked that an Argentine plumber/electrician/architect will happily go to your house, assess the issue and provide a quote free of charge. In the US you will get a $100 service charge just to shake hands with someone and you can forget an Architect. In Texas I was charged over $600 to fix a toilet leak. Getting a landscaping company to visit was impossible unless I was prepared to spend $10,000. I needed a quote to replace my entire tile floor ($14,000+ job) and I couldn't even get a visit from 3 companies. A gas specialist wanted to charge me $300 extra to use an electrical gas detection wand instead of a bottle of water/soap. Just a miserable, miserable experience hiring professionals there.

At one point we owned property in tg US and we were renting it out. It was insane everytime we had to fix anything. It was very expensive, and work is not always great. Here you find a variety of vendors, from very good to horrific but way more affordable.

 

[elhombresinnombre]

<snip>
The other lives in Seattle, and, no, you cant really live there without a car. He works 2 jobs, one he can take light rail to, the other you must drive.

Do they still have bike carriers mounted onto the front of the Seattle buses? I always thought that was a great way to get around for those fit enough to do so. It would be nice to think that something like that could work in Buenos Aires but sadly I suspect that the chorros would steal the bikes right out of the carriers :-(

 

[elhombresinnombre]

(snip)The Economist has the Big Mac Index which is fine (Argentina remains in 2nd place vis a vis the most expensive Big Mac in the world), but I personally prefer the Coca Cola Index due to it simply being water, sugar, and CO2 with a rockbottom overhead for labor costs unlike McDonalds.

Take a look at Coca Cola prices in the region/developed/broader world and tell me how well the Milei Miracle is going...:

Developed:

US @ Walmart: $2.74
Canada @ Walmart: $2.01
France @ Carrefour: $2.75
Australia @ Woolworths: $2.69
Japan @ Aeon: $1.44
UAE @ Lulu: $2.18

Broader World:

South Africa @ Shoprite: $1.17
China @ Epermarket: $1.10
India @ Dmart: $0.82
Malaysia @ Aeon: $0.75

Region:

Brazil @ Pão de Açúcar: $1.81
Colombia @ Exito: $1.37
Chile @ Jumbo: $2.37
Peru @ Wong: $2.34
Mexico @ Walmart: $1.82

Wait for it...

Argentina @ Carrefour (CABA): $3.96 USD

VAMOSSSS, GOLLLLL!!!, AGUANTE MILEIII!!! PREMIO NOBEL YA!!!

Joking/sarcasm aside, someone please tell me how this is sustainable? How do you look at this and think, "Yes, sugar water being $4 is a sign of a healthy economy." (snip)

I don't want to distract from the very important issues you are discussing in this thread but, unless a representative of the Coca Cola Company is willing to come on here and tell me differently I don't think the "Coca Cola Index" is anything like as reliable an economic indicator as the BIg Mac Index because it appears to me that the marketing strategies of the two companies are completely different. Apart from blatant distortions such as in Argentina during the time of the Ks when the deliberate downpricing of the Big Mac was done to give the impression that the economy was something that it was not, the consistency of the Big Mac pricing worldwide creates a constant through which one may view the state of each nation's economy.

As @Quilombo says, what is Coke if it's not just carbonated sugar-water with a dash of flavoring? It costs a lot to promote but next to nothing to manufacture. One year, not so long ago I spent some time in every one of the countries in South America - with the exception of the Guyanas - and I was fascinated by the variation in the price of Coke in every one. My purely observational opinion is that, all over the world, Coca Cola pitch the price irrespective of actual cost in order to make Coke accessible. Their advertising philosophy that all the world may enjoy a Coke and nobody need be excluded plays out for real, nation by nation. The most extreme example I noted was in Bolivia where a Coke cost literally just pennies - but as more than half the country only had pennies of discretionary income ,Coke was still accessible. If the price in Argentina is so high - and I know first hand that it is so high because we have a Coca Cola addict in the family - it's because regardless of the prevailing economic situation the Argentine consumer will pay the high price rather than give up that drink. The psychology of this nation's consumers that allows that to happen? Well, that's a different story.

 

[Che1990]

This is where I'm stuck - the crash will come, prices have to come back to reality (likely due to a massive devaluation like always) the question is when, and I don't think sitting around and waiting and living through another one just for the possibility things might normalize at some distant point in the future is a smart idea for us considering our medium to longterm goals in life.

Well, it took 11 years for convertability to crash, so it could well last that long this time. Who knows.

One thing that era does teach is that there was inflation for 2 years after the peso was fixed to the dollar, so we could hope that 2025 will be the last of it.

Who knows. Lots of coverage in the press about the risks of a cheap dollar. And of course, the cepo isn’t completely gone as restrictions still apply to companies.

So I don’t think it will take 11 years before some form of devaluation. But it won’t happen before the mid terms in October. So we just have to brace ourselves.

Its utterly horrible, really unsettling and a constant stress feeling poorer every day, and not knowing if I will be able to afford my current lifestyle over the coming years, especially with how hard I’ve worked to achieve it.

Makes me even more angry that it’s all because of Milei’s lies. They’ve achieved nothing, the average Argentine is no better off, and all this “super peso” is nothing more than black magic and debt from the FMI.
But oh well, what did I expect living in Argentina