How many of us are still here?

[chris]

Aside from money matters, let's consider this about life in Argentina.

Yesterday I had to go to MetroGas to dispute an incorrect bill. I have trouble getting around, so the taxi driver took me under his wing, parked his car, went into the office with me and did battle in my stead. This took almost an hour of his time, but he did it without being asked, and without any kind or compensation. He was a guy in his late thirties, acting simply out of the goodness in his heart and the willingness to help someone in need.

Only in Argentina......

There are kind people all over the world. I have seen acts of kindness in different countries. But I am glad that you are so happy in Argentina.

 

[on the brink]

There are kind people all over the world. I have seen acts of kindness in different countries. But I am glad that you are so happy in Argentina.

You are right.

Sadly, I did not find any while traveling in Belgium, France, Spain, Germany, or living in Uruguay.

However, I came across kind and helpful people both in Canada and Italy.

This country leaves a lot to be desired, but let's not overlook the kindness and generosity of many Argentinians.

 

[dlish]

You will stay ahead of the domestic price market ("maintaining" your COL) until the peso/dollar hits $1400. Once the peso/dollar hits $1400 you will no longer have any way to adjust to the peso inflation occurring. This means your COL will gradually rise more as it loses ground to domestic inflation.

I don’t follow this part. Once it hits 1400 the government is going to intervene again the official dollar. That will cause the blue to diverge again as the official dollar is being government manipulated again and so the blue will rise above 1400 and de-“peg” (not that it’s technically pegged now), just as it was before.

What am I missing?

 

[LuckyLuke]

USD earners in Argentina should really not be that miserable after saving how many tens of thousands of dollars from an artificially cheap lifestyle for so many years. They are now essentially just repaying their "subsidies" in the form of economic karma. What goes around, comes around so enjoy it while it lasts or despair it while it lasts (and surely with this being Argentina, nothing stays the same forever except the corner verdulería).

I suppose you hope that all the poor Argentines that lost their utility and transport subsidies that are now paying their "economic karma" for their previously artificially cheap lifestyle should shut their mouths too?

Let's pretend that the government didn't borrow a bunch of money to scare short-sellers out of the Forex market and take a moment to do a quick tally of the winners and losers here...

Losers:

Anyone who saved in USD. (hint: that's most of the country)
Anyone earning in USD. (does not mean they are paid well...but let's pretend they are)
Anyone looking to buy assets. (your 0 km costs twice the amount now)
Anyone selling dollars (you know...to buy food.)
Anyone looking to import their capital from abroad (crickets...).
Incoming Tourists and local tourism destinations.

Winners:

Anyone who saved in pesos. (show of hands...anybody? You all didn't buy YPF?)
Anyone earning in pesos. (Oh wait, that was devalued, but lets pretend it wasn't)
Anyone who is holding assets (...shhhh...it's not la casta)
Anyone who is looking to buy dollars.
Anyone who looking to export their capital abroad.
Outgoing Tourists and foreign tourist destinations.

So let's tally this up...anyone with assets, who didn't save in dollars, earning a good pay in pesos with inflation adjustments, and can afford to go to Chile or Brazil is winning right now. Sounds like this currency peg was a real improvement overall.

 

[sergio]

The discussion here seems to be between two groups: those who find the COL to have risen so substantially that they are having a hard time managing and those who acknowledge increases however insist that the COL is still lower than in other countries, mainly the US. The latter group are able to maintain their standard of living. Most people seem to fall into the former group who are struggling. Food costs in Argentina seem to be very close to US prices, sometimes even higher for generally lower quality products. Medical care in Argentina remains cheaper although for those expats over 65 from the US Medicare is useless, as are the many discounts and social welfare programs (low income housing, real estate tax freezes, real estate homestead reductions, food stamps, meals on wheels, Medicaid etc) for low income US citizens. For people who are still working, salaries in Argentina are very low compared to the US with little hope of receiving any pension or any more than a pittance after thirty years of labour. For this group of people staying in such an unstable country is a challenge. In short I suppose where one stands on the issue of the advantages of living in Argentina depends on one's situation in life. Without a good source of foreign income it would seem that life in Argentina will be difficult and no amount of arguing about the cost of eggs or a Big Mac is going to convince those trying to live on the local economy that it is anything but very expensive.

 

[Che1990]

I don’t follow this part. Once it hits 1400 the government is going to intervene again the official dollar. That will cause the blue to diverge again as the official dollar is being government manipulated again and so the blue will rise above 1400 and de-“peg” (not that it’s technically pegged now), just as it was before.

What am I missing?

yeah I was also thinking about this. If inflation does go up, with a free floating exchange rate (“free”), in theory, the dollar would go up with inflation as it may spook people into buying dollars.

If INDEC releases a high figure for May, surely people would flock to buy dollars and that should take care of that.

The issue up until now has been a fixed exchange rate that hasn’t moved with inflation.

But that, should be different now.

 

[Che1990]

The discussion here seems to be between two groups: those who find the COL to have risen so substantially that they are having a hard time managing and those who acknowledge increases however insist that the COL is still lower than in other countries, mainly the US. The latter group are able to maintain their standard of living. Most people seem to fall into the former group who are struggling. Food costs in Argentina seem to be very close to US prices, sometimes even higher for generally lower quality products. Medical care in Argentina remains cheaper although for those expats over 65 from the US Medicare is useless, as are the many discounts and social welfare programs (low income housing, real estate tax freezes, real estate homestead reductions, food stamps, meals on wheels, Medicaid etc) for low income US citizens. For people who are still working, salaries in Argentina are very low compared to the US with little hope of receiving any pension or any more than a pittance after thirty years of labour. For this group of people staying in such an unstable country is a challenge. In short I suppose where one stands on the issue of the advantages of living in Argentina depends on one's situation in life. Without a good source of foreign income it would seem that life in Argentina will be difficult and no amount of arguing about the cost of eggs or a Big Mac is going to convince those trying to live on the local economy that it is anything but very expensive.

For me, it’s the worry of the future.

Prices are not actually that bad high here now. I pay $600 USD per month for a big triplex in Palermo Soho, the equivalent in my native London would be in the thousands £££.

Food prices in supermarkets are comparable to Europe, as are those in Chile and Uruguay.

Clothes and tech are ridiculously priced but we all know why that is and a few reforms could fix that.

I can still afford things, and I totally understand things were “regalado” for many years and I was expecting a correction.

My other half earns in pesos, as do all my friends and family here, so I do totally understand the situation for local people.

My big worry right now is prices are still going up, 18 months nearly into Milei’s tenure.

The exchange rate isn’t accompanying inflation, in facts it’s going in the opposite direction.

Talk of it going down to 1000 per dollar, nearly 28% less than it’s a peak a few weeks ago, while food prices went up 6% in March is very worrying for those earning in foreign currencies.

Dollar goes down, prices go up - after 18 months of USD “stability”, that’s the worry.

 

[antipodean]

I suppose you hope that all the poor Argentines that lost their utility and transport subsidies that are now paying their "economic karma" for their previously artificially cheap lifestyle should shut their mouths too?

The poor still have their utility and transport subsidies, and most of them are still just as poor as they were before many of them for generations now. And no, I don’t hope they loose these subsidies as I believe in the concept of a social safety net and think Argentinas could be better if it’s various governments over the past decades were not so incompetent, short sighted and corrupt.

Solicitar subsidios para servicios de luz y gas

Todo lo que tenés que hacer para mantener el subsidio a la energía eléctrica y el gas de red para tu hogar.

www.argentina.gob.ar

https://www.anses.gob.ar/programas/tarifa-social

Winners:

Anyone who saved in pesos. (show of hands...anybody? You all didn't buy YPF?)
Anyone earning in pesos. (Oh wait, that was devalued, but lets pretend it wasn't)
Anyone who is holding assets (...shhhh...it's not la casta)
Anyone who is looking to buy dollars.
Anyone who looking to export their capital abroad.
Outgoing Tourists and foreign tourist destinations.

How horrible it must be for some expats to watch “their” pesofied local subjects now doing better than their dolarized expat masters. The overwhelming majority of Argentines earn in pesos, so the overwhelming majority of Argentines are winners by your logic yet somehow that is a bad thing?
“Champagne socialism” at its finest.

Well I guess that the human suffering did finance expats formerly glorious lifestyles with a low COL, made possible by rampant monetary emission (debt) and inflation (poverty) while essentially forcing locals to spend their little money on only what the state allowed them to spend money on (usually going into the pockets of their friends).

 

[nikad]

The poor still have their utility and transport subsidies, and most of them are still just as poor as they were before many of them for generations now. And no, I don’t hope they loose these subsidies as I believe in the concept of a social safety net and think Argentinas could be better if it’s various governments over the past decades were not so incompetent, short sighted and corrupt.

Solicitar subsidios para servicios de luz y gas

Todo lo que tenés que hacer para mantener el subsidio a la energía eléctrica y el gas de red para tu hogar.

www.argentina.gob.ar

https://www.anses.gob.ar/programas/tarifa-social

How horrible it must be for some expats to watch “their” pesofied local subjects now doing better than their dolarized expat masters. The overwhelming majority of Argentines earn in pesos, so the overwhelming majority of Argentines are winners by your logic yet somehow that is a bad thing?
“Champagne socialism” at its finest.

Well I guess that the human suffering did finance expats formerly glorious lifestyles with a low COL, made possible by rampant monetary emission (debt) and inflation (poverty) while essentially forcing locals to spend their little money on only what the state allowed them to spend money on (usually going into the pockets of their friends).

I honestly do not think that people earning salaries in pesos are doing great because raises have not kept up with inflation at all. There is a reason why pharmacies are selling less medication and supermarkets and grocery stores are having record low sales as well. The bottom line is that the big majority of people here ( and those are the ones earning pesos ) are not doing well, but are still somewhat hopeful. As for expats, retirees getting dollars are seeing the COL has increased significantly, but it may be worse back home and those that are still working and have average income in foreign currency can get by but are also feeling the impact of the lower exchange rate. The young single adventurous happy nomads living la vida loca on 2000 dollars a month are long gone.

 

[ArgentinaVet]

I suppose you hope that all the poor Argentines that lost their utility and transport subsidies that are now paying their "economic karma" for their previously artificially cheap lifestyle should shut their mouths too?

Let's pretend that the government didn't borrow a bunch of money to scare short-sellers out of the Forex market and take a moment to do a quick tally of the winners and losers here...

Losers:

Anyone who saved in USD. (hint: that's most of the country)
Anyone earning in USD. (does not mean they are paid well...but let's pretend they are)
Anyone looking to buy assets. (your 0 km costs twice the amount now)
Anyone selling dollars (you know...to buy food.)
Anyone looking to import their capital from abroad (crickets...).
Incoming Tourists and local tourism destinations.

Winners:

Anyone who saved in pesos. (show of hands...anybody? You all didn't buy YPF?)
Anyone earning in pesos. (Oh wait, that was devalued, but lets pretend it wasn't)
Anyone who is holding assets (...shhhh...it's not la casta)
Anyone who is looking to buy dollars.
Anyone who looking to export their capital abroad.
Outgoing Tourists and foreign tourist destinations.

So let's tally this up...anyone with assets, who didn't save in dollars, earning a good pay in pesos with inflation adjustments, and can afford to go to Chile or Brazil is winning right now. Sounds like this currency peg was a real improvement overall.

Winners:

Locals that want to buy real estate. Real estate prices have not gone up much and are still way below their 2017 peak. Salaries in USD have gone way up from their 2023 bottom and now there is a mortgage market available to some people. Real estate is by far the most important asset class for 95% of the population here.