How many of us are still here?

[nikad]

The bottom line is that 22% of the people are ok, and almost 80% are scraping by. I don't feel I have the ability to explain how Argentina, the country with the largest middle class in South America ended up like this, I am sure there are multiple factors, but to say that it was the Ks or Macri's fault exclusively is at the very least naive. It takes more than 12 years to drive a country into the ground. If things were to rebound, it will take several decades for people to see any real benefits. When I say " people " I mean the majority ( ie over 50/60 % of the population )

 

[sergio]

Not to mention most people still working in the black

Yes, that distorts the statistics. What is the percentage of people working in 'negro'? 40% And of course these people will not get pensions so they will be all the more impoverished.

 

[sergio]

The bottom line is that 22% of the people are ok, and almost 80% are scraping by. I don't feel I have the ability to explain how Argentina, the country with the largest middle class in South America ended up like this, I am sure there are multiple factors, but to say that it was the Ks or Macri's fault exclusively is at the very least naive. It takes more than 12 years to drive a country into the ground. If things were to rebound, it will take several decades for people to see any real benefits. When I say " people " I mean the majority ( ie over 50/60 % of the population )

The bottom line is that 22% of the people are ok, and almost 80% are scraping by. I don't feel I have the ability to explain how Argentina, the country with the largest middle class in South America ended up like this, I am sure there are multiple factors, but to say that it was the Ks or Macri's fault exclusively is at the very least naive. It takes more than 12 years to drive a country into the ground. If things were to rebound, it will take several decades for people to see any real benefits. When I say " people " I mean the majority ( ie over 50/60 % of the population

The bottom line is that 22% of the people are ok, and almost 80% are scraping by. I don't feel I have the ability to explain how Argentina, the country with the largest middle class in South America ended up like this, I am sure there are multiple factors, but to say that it was the Ks or Macri's fault exclusively is at the very least naive. It takes more than 12 years to drive a country into the ground. If things were to rebound, it will take several decades for people to see any real benefits. When I say " people " I mean the majority ( ie over 50/60 % of the population )

You are absolutely correct. The decline began long before 12 years ago. And even if the economy starts to improve it will take many, many years before the country is stable.

 

[Che1990]

I regularly have this conversation with my friend who got the big pay increase. Her salary went up, sure, but her purchasing power (like most of us) went down. Rent went up, food went up, clothing, dining, etc. She still lives paycheck to paycheck even after I taught her how to budget properly.

I have other friends working in professional roles for big companies like PwC where $1500 a month used to be luxurious. Now they can barely afford to go to the cinema, and are less likely to receive inflation-based salary increases from their overseas employer.

Yeah completely, my other half is getting this amount per month working at a big company, $1500 USD approx.

This would've been amazing back in 2023 - in October that year their salary hit $400 USD. But the reality is, it's still a tight living so much that earning $600 USD in 2023 or $1500 USD in 2025 is basically same.

It makes Milei look amazing on a regional scale, and I bet you this campaign we'll be hearing "los suelos estan volando en dolares".

But the reality is, things havent really changed for Argentines, prices are rising less (still rising though) and the middle classes can vacation and buy things from abroad, aside from that things are the same. And the abroad thing is only a symptom an artificlaly strong currency thanks to IMF debt.

Thing may even be worse now, as ajustes are really only every 6 months these days. My other half got an ajuste in September and then in February. Imagine that. Back in 2023, they were get paid every two weeks with adjustments accordingly.

Things are not better for Argentines.

 

[steveinbsas]

My neighbor Emmanuel (Nikol's owner) was paid a monthly government salary (working in the police at the naval base in Punta Alta) of about $300 USD in late 2023. Now his monthly salary is about $450 USD.

He recently told me (only because I asked) that it now costs about twice that amount (excluding rent) to support his family of four and is doing as much work outside of his job as he can find. His pareja works part time but I didn't ask how much she is presently earning.

He also indicated that the average monthly salary for almost everyone he knows that are about his age (35) is presently less than $500 USD.

 

[Redpossum]

My neighbor Emmanuel (Nikol's owner) was paid a monthly government salary (working in the police at the naval base in Punta Alta) of about $300 USD in late 2023. Now his monthly salary is about $450 USD.

He recently told me (only because I asked) that it now costs about twice that amount (excluding rent) to support his family of four and is doing as much work outside of his job as he can find. His pareja works part time but I didn't ask how much she is presently earning.

He also indicated that the average monthly salary for almost everyone he knows that are about his age (35) is presently less than $500 USD.

Hey, Steve

I find this much easier to believe than that pyramid nonsense above. I'm not faulting the member who posted it, but it's based on government economic figures, and I don't believe those at all.

 

[LuckyLuke]

I don’t follow this part. Once it hits 1400 the government is going to intervene again the official dollar. That will cause the blue to diverge again as the official dollar is being government manipulated again and so the blue will rise above 1400 and de-“peg” (not that it’s technically pegged now), just as it was before.

What am I missing?

Have a look at this chart:



What do you see? While cuevas may operate in cash allowing a premium, the majority of the dollar market operates on MEP. Your western union transfers, credit card exchange rates, etc follow MEP (or CCL), not blue. For most expats, this will be the rate they will get unless they have physical bills. This MEP rate will not go higher than $1400. That is the peg.

 

[sergio]

Hey, Steve

I find this much easier to believe than that pyramid nonsense above. I'm not faulting the member who posted it, but it's based on government economic figures, and I don't believe those at all.

Given the huge number of people working in negro and the fact that the statistics are dubious, I agree, however I keep reading posts on this site about how reasonable prices are, especially compared to the US. The problem is most Argentinos live in Argentina and from what I can tell some of the US people in Argentina are working and earning local salaries

 

[LuckyLuke]

No-one here seems concerned about how they will fare when they retire and have to live on an Argentine pension (assuming they have the requisite thirty years to receive anything). If they are expats under the age of 65 and still working they should keep in mind that they cannot make voluntary contributions to the US Social Security pension system. If they are from the UK voluntary contributions are allowed so they should be contributing. Living on a few hundred dollars a month is the reality for most Argentine pensioners. Could many expats adapt?

Americans need a total of 40 credits, roughly 10 years or work to collect Social Security. While the IRS allows a foreign income tax exclusion for federal income taxes, self employment taxes (which include social security contributions) are not exempt. This is a mandatory contribution not voluntary.

 

[LuckyLuke]

Winners:

Locals that want to buy real estate. Real estate prices have not gone up much and are still way below their 2017 peak. Salaries in USD have gone way up from their 2023 bottom and now there is a mortgage market available to some people. Real estate is by far the most important asset class for 95% of the population here.

Correct. Though I don't expect this momentary advantage to last very long. As locals realize that median wages in USD are increasing in Argentina, real estate (priced already in USD) will adjust accordingly.