How many of you want to leave Bs As?

GS_Dirtboy said:
Sorry, forgot to give #'s for San Diego

Retail sales salary - $2240
2 BR rental - $1450
OSDE-type healthcare - $900
2 kids private school - $1465

No need in San Diego for you to send your kids to a private school and you can comute, then renting should be quite a bit lower.

No need to live in San Diego as well, plenty of cities in the US where it's easy to get a job in retail, unlike Argentina where it's basically limited to BA
 
El chabon said:
No need in San Diego for you to send your kids to a private school and you can comute, then renting should be quite a bit lower.

No need to live in San Diego as well, plenty of cities in the US where it's easy to get a job in retail, unlike Argentina where it's basically limited to BA

I agree with what you are saying in that you don't "need" to, but in San Diego the only time you can send your kids to public school is when you live in mid to upper income neighborhoods. That essentially means everything north of the city and Coronado. And the renting gets less expensive when you get further west of El Cajon, a 40 mintue drive and then you'll eat the difference in gas.

Yes, you can get a retail job in Birmingham, Alabama (where I grew up) and buy a nice house, barn, and horses for what you pay for an apartment here in BsAs, but the salaries are lower there, as well (compared to SD). There's always a trade off, eg if you are making 3000 pesos per month in BsAs you aren't renting a 2Br apartment in a nice neighborhood and sending your kids to private school.

Maybe the difference in the numbers is that we live like Porteños, not like Expats. In our experience, life here is cheaper. Yes, getting more expensive, but still cheaper than from where we came from.
 
GS_Dirtboy said:
I agree with what you are saying in that you don't "need" to, but in San Diego the only time you can send your kids to public school is when you live in mid to upper income neighborhoods. That essentially means everything north of the city and Coronado. And the renting gets less expensive when you get further west of El Cajon, a 40 mintue drive and then you'll eat the difference in gas.

Yes, you can get a retail job in Birmingham, Alabama (where I grew up) and buy a nice house, barn, and horses for what you pay for an apartment here in BsAs, but the salaries are lower there, as well (compared to SD). There's always a trade off, eg if you are making 3000 pesos per month in BsAs you aren't renting a 2Br apartment in a nice neighborhood and sending your kids to private school.

Maybe the difference in the numbers is that we live like Porteños, not like Expats. In our experience, life here is cheaper. Yes, getting more expensive, but still cheaper than from where we came from.

How did you get your numbers by the way?

It's pretty much the same as anywhere else, you need to live within your means, but I am pretty sure the chances of earning a good wage are much bigger anywhere in the US then in BA.

How much you recon you need in BA for a nice 2 br room appartment, healthcare, 2 kids in private schools, bills, food and clothes paid for in BA?

I am guessing your talking about atleast 12.000 peso or around 3000 dollar a month
 
El chabon said:
How did you get your numbers by the way?

It's pretty much the same as anywhere else, you need to live within your means, but I am pretty sure the chances of earning a good wage are much bigger anywhere in the US then in BA.

How much you recon you need in BA for a nice 2 br room appartment, healthcare, 2 kids in private schools, bills, food and clothes paid for in BA?

I am guessing your talking about atleast 12.000 peso or around 3000 dollar a month

I've lived in Argentina since 2006. Had an apartment in San Diego from 2009-2100.

To keep this discussion on-topic you need to consider my point; In my experience it is possible to have a higher standard of living here in BsAs than the US for the same job. I gave an example of retail sales (note - I didn't say the average retail sales person earns $7000ARS per month. The average is $3000-$40000ARS / month.

However, the average retail sales person in San Diego, or Philadelphia, or Birmingham doesn't make $3000-$4000US per month. They make half of that ($9US /hr). That means they need to work two jobs and apartment share.

As for the question about how much it costs to have a nice life-style in BsAs that depends upon your definition of nice. But, I can list 5 examples off the top of my head of friends, either single or couples, who make $8000ARS - $10000ARS per month and have all those ammenities, plus are saving money.

I think we are back to the question of living/thinking like Porteños or like Ex-pats. If one doesn't have a DNI, pays the rent for one's Recoleta flat in $US, and thinks that $400ARS isn't expensive to pay for dinner and drinks because, after all, it's only $90US, then I can understand how crazy the idea of comfortably living in BsAs sounds.
 
GS_Dirtboy said:
I've lived in Argentina since 2006. Had an apartment in San Diego from 2009-2100.

To keep this discussion on-topic you need to consider my point; In my experience it is possible to have a higher standard of living here in BsAs than the US for the same job. I gave an example of retail sales (note - I didn't say the average retail sales person earns $7000ARS per month. The average is $3000-$40000ARS / month.

However, the average retail sales person in San Diego, or Philadelphia, or Birmingham doesn't make $3000-$4000US per month. They make half of that ($9US /hr). That means they need to work two jobs and apartment share.

As for the question about how much it costs to have a nice life-style in BsAs that depends upon your definition of nice. But, I can list 5 examples off the top of my head of friends, either single or couples, who make $8000ARS - $10000ARS per month and have all those ammenities, plus are saving money.

I think we are back to the question of living/thinking like Porteños or like Ex-pats. If one doesn't have a DNI, pays the rent for one's Recoleta flat in $US, and thinks that $400ARS isn't expensive to pay for dinner and drinks because, after all, it's only $90US, then I can understand how crazy the idea of comfortably living in BsAs sounds.

By your own numbers they are spending this

Retail sales salary (1 person): 7000+ pesos/mo
2 Bdroom rental in Colegiales: 1800 pesos (25%)
OSDE (family): 867 pesos (12%)
2 kids in private school: 2200 pesos (31%)

And have 8000-10.000 peso and are able to save

You are still missing (prices per month)

1: Food 1500-2000 peso
2: Gas, water, electricity = 200 peso
3: ABL = 100 peso
4: Expensas = 150/200 peso
5: Internet, phone = 250 peso
6: Clothes 3 persons x 300 peso a month = 900 peso
7: Transport 3 persons x 100 peso a month = 300 peso
8: Insurance = 100 peso a month
9: Extra = 500 peso

Total 4000-5000

Something doesn't really add up don't you think?

P.S. Your numbers are way off, as said as well by Citygirl among others
 
Well, I still intend to come down and not deterred by any of what you say.
 
Okay, to answer the first post here. I came here thinking my wife and I were going to live here forever. Now we're planning on leaving after 3 years of our stay. And its not because the country is the worst thing imaginable. Its just that economically, the numbers just don't add up at the end of the month.

As for this debate about whether Argentina is expensive or not, I posted the following numbers on another post. They describe in real terms the expenses one has to pay put side to side between BsAs and Glasgow. The starting salary for a junior auditor at an audit firm in Argentina is 55200 pesos (pre-tax) and the same position in the same audit firm in Glasgow pays a starting salary of (pre-tax) 22,000 GBPounds which is roughly 154,000 pesos (multiplied by 7, the rate today is 7.144). Anyway, let's see the numbers:

Glasgow:
Rent (in a nicer part of town, 1 BR apartment): 525 pounds (Approx. 3756 pesos);
Council Tax: 130 pounds (Approx. 930 pesos);
Electric and water (they don't use gas at all, everything is run on electric): 75 pounds (Approx. 536 pesos);
Apartment Expenses (upkeep, elevator, etc): (Landlord pays so) 0 pounds (Approx. 0 pesos :p);
Eating Out (if they go out only once every weekend): 60 pounds (Approx. 429 pesos);
Groceries: 120 pounds (Approx. 858 pesos);
Public Transport (calculated at 22 days a month and if a separate ticket is bought every day. It costs less if you buy a monthly ticket): 71 pounds (Approx. 508 pesos).

Total: 981 pounds (Approx. 7020 pesos, rounded off with other expenses: 7500~8000 pesos).

Buenos Aires:
Rent (in a nicer part of town): I don't pay rent so someone help me out here.
Council Tax: Someone help me out here too.
Electric/Gas (this is the average, and with subsidies; last time I paid 20 pesos for electric): 100+30 = 130 pesos (Approx. 18 pounds);
Apartment Expenses + Water (we pay it all together): 800 pesos (Approx. 111 pounds);
Eating Out (if we go out once a week): 600 pesos (Approx. 83 pounds);
Groceries (this varies from month to month but not considering groceries bought for guests etc.): 2000 pesos (Approx. 279 pounds);
Public Transport (since we don't have full day pass here, I am going to use 2 subte trips for this calculation. Calculated for 22 days a month): 110 pesos (Approx. 15 pounds).

Total: 3640 without rent and council tax (Approx. 508 pounds). Like I rounded off for Glasgow, I will do the same here and round it up to ~4000 pesos.

For Glasgow, if we take out the rent and council tax, we have: 8000-3756-930=3314 pesos.

The numbers for Glasgow are provided by a friend of mine who lives in Glasgow and are currect. I'd appreciate rent and ABL numbers from a nicer part of town like Palermo (not Puerto Madero) to give us a picture of what's more expensive and where you can have a better quality of life.

GS_DirtBoy I disagree with you that you can get a better quality of life in Argentina for similar numbers but maybe I am not understanding what you really mean(?).

Alex, come on down all you want. No one is stopping you but I will just advise you to take what's written on these forums somewhat seriously because most of what's written here is a true representation of Buenos Aires.
 
El chabon said:
By your own numbers they are spending this

You are still missing (prices per month)

1: Food 1500-2000 peso
2: Gas, water, electricity = 200 peso
3: ABL = 100 peso
4: Expensas = 150/200 peso
5: Internet, phone = 250 peso
6: Clothes 3 persons x 300 peso a month = 900 peso
7: Transport 3 persons x 100 peso a month = 300 peso
8: Insurance = 100 peso a month
9: Extra = 500 peso

Total 4000-5000

Wow - my expensas are 800-900 per month. I must be getting ripped!

Anyway, I agree with most of what you say in your assessment. And if we talk in a year, I'm sure there wil most likely be a 50% rise on much of it.
 
We pay 800 for expenses too. However, because water is going to get expensive, they are going to increase the expenses as well.

Gas and electric are also going to go up where they haven't already. Telecentro increases the amount charged every two months or so. Cablevision revises it every year.
 
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