How to fall in love with Buenos Aires?

[chris]

Attend the Teatro Colon. Read Borges, Claudia Pineiro, Roberto Alt and Tomas Eloy Martinez "The Peon Novel," at an outdoor cafe. Listen to Juan de Carlo and an Orchestra Typica and Piazolla. Spend an afternoon taking a cigaret to Carlos Gardel. Take in the Yul Solar museum and the new museum of Latin American art. The dirty streets, the bland food etc. isn't going to change anytime soon. You're a hundred years too late for the Paris of the Americas. But Argentina, as mentioned above, has a very special history and culture, if not always the happiest. If it doesn't interest you by now it probably won't. Have fun, go to Brasil.

​

Sorry, what new museum of Latin American Art? MALBA? Hardly new.

 

[Quilombo]

I think both Nikad and Red are right, we need to know more about what you like/are in to/about you to be able to make recommendations, and to keep in mind that as much as a quilombo Argentina is, I'm always surprised the bottom somehow manages to not fall out.

How I can like Buenos Aires. What are some things I could try or do that could change my perspective of Argentina or the conurbano? In my opinion the city is quite ugly, dirty and run down, the food is bland, the drivers are terrible, it's much more dangerous than anywhere I've been, I'm tired of the ever-present poverty and Argentinians are very unreliable.

As for this part, I have a few thoughts:

- You can't force yourself to like things. That being said, you can find contexts in which you could like it. For example, I don't like prepared yellow mustard, or even Dijon mustard, but dishes in which it is an ingredient aren't as good without it. Perhaps you have to find specific situations/things you like that also happen to occur in Buenos Aires
- I get not liking the grime and poverty, I don't either, and I go into the poor/not safe at night parts of Zona Sur to see my in laws and it makes me depressed because nobody, not them nor strangers should have to live like that. That being said, it is a fact of life, and the only real way to avoid it is to either live in a bougie neighborhood in CABA like Puerto Madero, or move to a Country in the Conurbano. Patagonia has some wealthier towns too, so that could be an option
- The food is only going to be worse outside of CABA, Argentina is very meat and potatoes, but you can find specific cuisine if you look for it, but you're also likely going to pay more. If there are specific foods you miss, you can import them provided it's not fresh, i.e. spices, candy, etc.
- Drivers are terrible in many places, here more than say the states, but it's rough in South East Asia, Eastern Europe, Italy, etc. too
- Argentines will not be reliable generally, and time is more about prospective than a specific minute or hour; for this you will likely have to learn to deal with it over time, and be explicitly clear when something has to be done by/at X vs when people are free to be more Argentine with their time

All this being said, many/all of us who are foreigners that have made Argentina our home have things we don't like about here/wish were different. I hate Peronism, I don't care for dulce de leche being in everything sweet, customer service doesn't exist here, and everything is needlessly bureaucratic, but I also have things I like/love, like my spouse, my in laws, asado/mate with the family, Patagonia, the weather, etc.

Maybe you just haven't found yours yet, and hopefully you will soon

 

[Redpossum]

Knowing this will make you love the place? Really?

 

[chris]

I think both Nikad and Red are right, we need to know more about what you like/are in to/about you to be able to make recommendations, and to keep in mind that as much as a quilombo Argentina is, I'm always surprised the bottom somehow manages to not fall out.

As for this part, I have a few thoughts:

- You can't force yourself to like things. That being said, you can find contexts in which you could like it. For example, I don't like prepared yellow mustard, or even Dijon mustard, but dishes in which it is an ingredient aren't as good without it. Perhaps you have to find specific situations/things you like that also happen to occur in Buenos Aires
- I get not liking the grime and poverty, I don't either, and I go into the poor/not safe at night parts of Zona Sur to see my in laws and it makes me depressed because nobody, not them nor strangers should have to live like that. That being said, it is a fact of life, and the only real way to avoid it is to either live in a bougie neighborhood in CABA like Puerto Madero, or move to a Country in the Conurbano. Patagonia has some wealthier towns too, so that could be an option
- The food is only going to be worse outside of CABA, Argentina is very meat and potatoes, but you can find specific cuisine if you look for it, but you're also likely going to pay more. If there are specific foods you miss, you can import them provided it's not fresh, i.e. spices, candy, etc.
- Drivers are terrible in many places, here more than say the states, but it's rough in South East Asia, Eastern Europe, Italy, etc. too
- Argentines will not be reliable generally, and time is more about prospective than a specific minute or hour; for this you will likely have to learn to deal with it over time, and be explicitly clear when something has to be done by/at X vs when people are free to be more Argentine with their time

All this being said, many/all of us who are foreigners that have made Argentina our home have things we don't like about here/wish were different. I hate Peronism, I don't care for dulce de leche being in everything sweet, customer service doesn't exist here, and everything is needlessly bureaucratic, but I also have things I like/love, like my spouse, my in laws, asado/mate with the family, Patagonia, the weather, etc.

Maybe you just haven't found yours yet, and hopefully you will soon

You can't force yourself to like something - correct. You can only look for ways to make it tolerable.

 

[GMan_27]

As most have said here, you can't force yourself to like something. It honestly sounds like you need a change of scenery. I also got that feeling of grubbiness and generally run down feeling in BA and surrounds. You can see the place is going through hard times but its not terrible. There is still a lot to do and see. You may need to get out to some of the smaller towns. Cordoba is also kinda similar in that you can also see the decline but you will see that in most cities.

Honestly, try travel around and see if there is a place you like. I love Mendoza. Its a great city and a lot more trees and a lot less claustrophobic than BA I feel. The place gets a tonne of tourists (probably a higher proportion of tourists to locals than BA) so it always feels busy but never crowded (unless its a cash machine). You say you are not a wine person but if you enjoy the outdoors this place is the best. Lots of outdoor activities and food is decent. Public transport I feel is far easier to use and understand than BA and the place is well connected but like all cities in Argentina it has decay and rot from years of economic decline. If thats not your speed then Chile is just a short/long scenic road trip away.

If you want less bland food maybe you need to go to different restaurants or travel to new places like Salta or Jujuy and see the influence of neighboring countries and cultures on food. Honestly, try travel more than just to the biggest cities in Arg or leave to a place you are more accustomed to.

 

[Redpossum]

There is spicy food to be had, but you have to ask for it, and reassure them that you're not going to cry. Usually at a Peruvian restaurant there will be a squeeze bottle of some yellow sauce that will clear your sinuses like a flamethrower. But you have to ask. Look around at what the locals are eating and talk to your server.

My seeming inability to keep my big mouth shut has caused me untold amounts of trouble over the course of my long & wicked life, but it has also led to me learning a lot of new things which I would otherwise have missed.

There's a Korean place called Fa Song Song here in Retiro, on Esmeralda, the second block north of Cordoba, where the food is amazingly bland and boring. When I finally ate there instead of ordering take away, I noticed a couple at a neighboring table had a small dish of some red sauce. I asked them politely what it was, they told me if you ask the waiter will bring you some. I did, and it was excellent, with considerable authority. Not quite napalm-grade like Habanero sauce, but certainly a great improvement.



(Now I'm remembering the chiles chipotles adobados in a little can we used to get in San Diego...damn I miss Mexican food!)

 

[chris]

I don't think a Peruvian restaurant or a trip to a run down town with trees painted white a meter from the ground and stray dogs running around the plaza is going to change his mind. The truth is that most of BA is grubby looking but there are some relatively clean neighborhoods with upbeat shops, restaurants and cafes. Recoleta (the heart - Quintana, Alvear, Posadas etc) and not its fringes looks first world. I don't think he's going to find Mendoza or Cordoba more appealing. I remember going to Posadas years ago. I was shocked at how very poor and miserable it looked. I had never seen anything so depressing in Argentina. Over time you learn to accept it. If you can't, it's better to leave. Argentina is not for everyone.

 

[lostandconfused]

Thanks for all the replies. Unfortunately, I just don't think I will like it here after all. I've tried most of the suggestions in this thread a long time ago. There is also nothing I could only do in CABA. I come from a city of 100 thousand people and it's so much easier to do anything there, especially because we don't have insane tax rates on imports. I am afraid of taking out my camera to do photography, the conurbano is incredibly unfriendly to pedestrians so I don't want to walk and there aren't even any independent cinemas. If I start to drink wine to stand being here, I will become an alcoholic. I am 25 years old and nothing has caught my attention so far. I am especially surprised by how dead it is in the night even in Palermo. I think I will go back and make enough money to lock myself away in a bubble somewhere in Zona Norte, as unfortunately I still have to be here in the long term...

- Drivers are terrible in many places, here more than say the states, but it's rough in South East Asia, Eastern Europe, Italy, etc. too

I come from Poland, which has the worst road accident casualty statistics in Eastern Europe. According to Wikipedia, Argentina has 13.6 deaths per 100k people and Poland has 7.6. I won't even mention "casual" accidents. I have never seen so many damaged cars in my life. Then again, Argentinian drivers can't even turn. Many times I have been blocked by idiots who, when turning left, go to the opposite lane, making it impossible for me to enter my own lane. Not to mention all the times I was taken over when turning left. Or all the people who can't even stay in their lane. Or all the infractions ignored all the time by the police and all the "para-police" units, like Direccion General de Transito. I have never seen anything like this. How can a whole city of 15 million people not realise that following traffic laws and driving safely will actually help them arrive at their destination more quickly?? Who has the time to read minds, block intersections and do whatever it is Argentinians do on roundabouts? In regards to Italy, there are many differences between, say, South Tirol and Napoli, also in driving skills. My girlfriend told me what she had to do to get her licence here - drive in a zigzag and park at an angle. Compare that to the Polish driving exam, which is at least 1 hour of driving in real conditions in the city (after doing what Argentinians do to get their licence), and it becomes obvious why I don't need an IDP to drive.

I guess the thread can die now. All I can say to the people who are planning to move to Argentina/the conurbano/CABA and encounter this thread is that:
1. Visiting Argentina is much more different from living here, even if you've spent some time here before the move.
2. You might want to consider another place.

 

[Redpossum]

Thanks for all the replies. Unfortunately, I just don't think I will like it here after all. I've tried most of the suggestions in this thread a long time ago. There is also nothing I could only do in CABA. I come from a city of 100 thousand people and it's so much easier to do anything there, especially because we don't have insane tax rates on imports. I am afraid of taking out my camera to do photography, the conurbano is incredibly unfriendly to pedestrians so I don't want to walk and there aren't even any independent cinemas. If I start to drink wine to stand being here, I will become an alcoholic. I am 25 years old and nothing has caught my attention so far. I am especially surprised by how dead it is in the night even in Palermo. I think I will go back and make enough money to lock myself away in a bubble somewhere in Zona Norte, as unfortunately I still have to be here in the long term...

I come from Poland, which has the worst road accident casualty statistics in Eastern Europe. According to Wikipedia, Argentina has 13.6 deaths per 100k people and Poland has 7.6. I won't even mention "casual" accidents. I have never seen so many damaged cars in my life. Then again, Argentinian drivers can't even turn. Many times I have been blocked by idiots who, when turning left, go to the opposite lane, making it impossible for me to enter my own lane. Not to mention all the times I was taken over when turning left. Or all the people who can't even stay in their lane. Or all the infractions ignored all the time by the police and all the "para-police" units, like Direccion General de Transito. I have never seen anything like this. How can a whole city of 15 million people not realise that following traffic laws and driving safely will actually help them arrive at their destination more quickly?? Who has the time to read minds, block intersections and do whatever it is Argentinians do on roundabouts? In regards to Italy, there are many differences between, say, South Tirol and Napoli, also in driving skills. My girlfriend told me what she had to do to get her licence here - drive in a zigzag and park at an angle. Compare that to the Polish driving exam, which is at least 1 hour of driving in real conditions in the city (after doing what Argentinians do to get their licence), and it becomes obvious why I don't need an IDP to drive.

I guess the thread can die now. All I can say to the people who are planning to move to Argentina/the conurbano/CABA and encounter this thread is that:
1. Visiting Argentina is much more different from living here, even if you've spent some time here before the move.
2. You might want to consider another place.

Translation for those who CBA to read the wall-o-text above -

"Waaah! Waaaah! It's not like Europe, waaaah!"

 

[lostandconfused]

Translation for those who CBA to read the wall-o-text above -

"Waaah! Waaaah! It's not like Europe, waaaah!"

Meh, at least Thailand would be cheaper and safer. The food would be much better too