Immigration Lawyers

[Girino]

And that's exactly why FUD is a thing.

You're such a nerd! I just read your posts to learn new words

 

[Bajo_cero2]

This ranges from the political (duh), to even questions near his core area of competency. Example (already repeated ad nauseam): Argentines living abroad can enter the country on a temporary basis on a foreign passport. This is the case for the past 20 years. The government says this - on the migraciones website and that of every Arg consulate in the world. Everyone knows this. Everyone does this. Notwithstanding this, the man basically said you can go to jail for that. And strove mightily to duck the question of whether to his knowledge has anything remotely similar ever happened. Only several pages into the debate, having been cornered by facts he clearly seemed not to be aware of at the outset, does he duck behind "professional secret".

Your levels of ignorance seems to have no limits.
It is not the executive power who decides to cancel your citizenship, it is the Prosecutors that are an independent branch of the Justice who have wide freedom about when to start a cancellation process and SC precedents allows them to do it when you arrive with a foreign passport being a local. I guess you also know who is the Prosecutor and you know how does he thinks right? No? I thought though.
However, you quote a website...good luck!

 

[ben]

Your levels of ignorance seems to have no limits.
It is not the executive power who decides to cancel your citizenship, it is the Prosecutors that are an independent branch of the Justice who have wide freedom about when to start a cancellation process and SC precedents allows them to do it when you arrive with a foreign passport being a local. I guess you also know who is the Prosecutor and you know how does he thinks right? No? I thought though.
However, you quote a website...good luck!

Right. For following a DNM regulation in force since 1992, someone will cancel your citizenship.
Just 2 questions:
1. How many times to your knowledge, since 1992, has an Argentine citizen had his/her citizenship cancelled because of entering Argentina on a foreign passport?
2. How many hoops will you jump through to avoid answering question #1?

P.S. I did not quote a website, I quoted a DNM regulation in force for a long time. That it is to be found online is irrelevant, isn't it?
P.P.S. Since you've already decided to stop (pretending to) ignore me, might as well also answer why you made up the Constitution's position regarding a ceremony (the "traspaso de mando") it doesn't even mention.

@Serafina - Anyone who deals with software (and the marketing thereof) is conversant with this term; but it works in a lot of other contexts (like this one).

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Right. For following a DNM regulation in force since 1992, someone will cancel your citizenship.
Just 2 questions:
1. How many times to your knowledge, since 1992, has an Argentine citizen had his/her citizenship cancelled because of entering Argentina on a foreign passport?
2. How many hoops will you jump through to avoid answering question #1?

P.S. I did not quote a website, I quoted a DNM regulation in force for a long time. That it is to be found online is irrelevant, isn't it?
P.P.S. Since you've already decided to stop (pretending to) ignore me, might as well also answer why you made up the Constitution's position regarding a ceremony (the "traspaso de mando") it doesn't even mention.

@Serafina - Anyone who deals with software (and the marketing thereof) is conversant with this term; but it works in a lot of other contexts (like this one).

You do not even understand what is a law and what is an internal memo. Professionals works on a bulletproof basis, amateurs (to be very nice with you), thinks on a luck and a wide imagination basis.

The DNU 70/2017 is a transitory attempt of a law change but a wider change in citizenship law and/or the decree is imminent and the Judges appointed by this President applies the new changes retroactively even the civil law forbids it.

So, please, stop being so irresponsible when you do not even understand basic concepts of the local law that any student of the first year of the law school does.

I cannot reply your question because the approach is wrong. You do the wrong questions because you are clueless about the topic.

 

[ben]

My dear bajo. You are such a piece of work.

I'm sure you're right, and I don't understand what is an internal memo is. But I suspect that whatever it is, it probably doesn't get posted on the public facing Migraciones website and on consulates around the entire world.

I have no idea why you're bringing up DNU 70/2017, I never mentioned it and it has nothing to do with what we're discussing.

I did quote Disposición 2742/2009, which continues and extends a policy put in place by Resolución 2578/1991. A quarter-century ago.

You're claiming that following that policy can make scary things happen. The obvious question becomes "Well, has that ever happened?"

Just be honest - you cannot answer the question "when did this ever happen?" because the stuff you describe never, ever, happened. And you can't admit that. I feel the pain, it must hurt.

==============

I'll repeat the above 2 questions, and add a third:

1. How many times to your knowledge, since 1992, has an Argentine citizen had his/her citizenship cancelled because of entering Argentina on a foreign passport, as you claim may happen?
2. How many hoops will you jump through to avoid answering question #1? (Actually, you're already answering that question)
3. What about a simple factual question is a "wrong approach" ? Come, come - your problem is not the question, it is the answer.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

I think that's the whole concept, you hire a professional to handle your case, but what i think is missing in this culture is the fact that once you start paying( and from what i gather, large ammounts of money) you, the professional, being paid by me, work for me , and report to me on the advancement of my case, meaning you must take the time to explain every step of the process in a cordial professional maner...... i have seen this type of behavior not only with lawyers but with neurosurgeons and the like..... seems to me. that the higher or more important diploma you hold, the less professional you behave....... i have been treated better by tow truck drivers than some of these professionals....i dunno maybe i've been unlucky......but then again, i take no shit from any of these mussolini types.......It is very simple really, this is the problem, i hire you, you fix it and save your preaching for someone who wants to hear it, i want to see results..

Mc Kenna, that culture might work with professionals who are very expensive and charge by the hour like it is at the US but in Argentina lawyers works on a flat fee system where nobody is going to accept what you propose unless, of course, he is plenty of free time. We have 50.000 licensed lawyers in this city and this why they are less expensive than in the US so, they need to use their time wisely to make some money at the end of the year.

If you agree to pay 400 usd per hour to waste the time of the professional, perhaps he will be more receptive to your approach.

It happened to me to have clients on the WhatsApp that starts chatting and they do not understand that interrupting me every 3 minutes it is not only annoying but unacceptable because if there is something I do not have is time to waste because I have responsibility on about 240 families plus mine. So, my standard reply is: are you arrested? no? This number is for emergencies only. And this is true, I m 24/7 available if someone is arrested.

Most of my quality work is regarding to develop new legal arguments and my skill is related to write custom made appeals. For this I need to focus and concentrate for several hours that is incompatible with chatting on WhatsApp.

I also know that it is part of the culture of the US to bring up your story but I do not really care about it because for us it is gossiping.

I know what are the requirements of the law and precedents so I really care about 2 or 3 questions.

The chart someone complained about is because I´m clear, I do not charge regarding the face of my client or nationality, I do it regarding how complex is the case.

If some people thinks it is too expensive, they are free to look for another professional. On the other hand, I think it is not well paid enough because I know how much I have to work to make thinks happens. People sometimes do not understand that there 2 different procedures: a) when you have DNI you need a paralegal and this is or should be cheap. But when b ) you do not have DNI, then it is a lawsuit before a Federal Court and this is a lot more expensive than what I charge so I compensate it having more cases.

But something I do not accept is people who waste my time, fake consultations and people who invent the facts of the case and change it every five minutes because they want to satisfy their curiosity or they want to built a fake case. One of the persons who complained about me, as far as I remind him, made this.

So, I m not really interested in easy cases and as far as I asserted before, I m not looking for clients here.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

My dear bajo. You are such a piece of work.

No, I know Federal law that is considered high end among lawyers while you do not understand nothing.

Let´s see, according to you a website has some kind of legal value? Seriously? I can laugh about this for the next 10 years. Please.

Let´s continue. You quote internal memos of the DNM. What is the legal value of that? FYI this is the way the orders are made inside an bureaucratic institution from the superiors to the low rank agents. So, are they going to allow you to get into the country? Yes, but It has legal consequences.

You do not understand why I point DNU 70/2017? Uffffff, seriously? A Presidential decree with the same level of a law that rules on immigration and citizenship...remember when I was talking before about hierarchy of rules? A memo vsus a presidential decree of emergency that is alike a law. No further comments.

Also, the memos you quote are regarding the ordinary law of immigration while citizenship is ruled by federal laws (wrong approach...) (helloooooooooooooooooooooo)

So, as I said before, do not put yourself in ridiculous and, even better, do not jeopardize other members of the forum with you arrogance and ignorance.

Of course I can quote several cases but the knowledge of the Federal precedents is my skill and part of my professional secret that I do not have to share neither I want to.

 

[mc kenna]

Mc Kenna, that culture might work with professionals who are very expensive and charge by the hour like it is at the US but in Argentina lawyers works on a flat fee system where nobody is going to accept what you propose unless, of course, he is plenty of free time. We have 50.000 licensed lawyers in this city and this why they are less expensive than in the US so, they need to use their time wisely to make some money at the end of the year.

If you agree to pay 400 usd per hour to waste the time of the professional, perhaps he will be more receptive to your approach.

It happened to me to have clients on the WhatsApp that starts chatting and they do not understand that interrupting me every 3 minutes it is not only annoying but unacceptable because if there is something I do not have is time to waste because I have responsibility on about 240 families plus mine. So, my standard reply is: are you arrested? no? This number is for emergencies only. And this is true, I m 24/7 available if someone is arrested.

Most of my quality work is regarding to develop new legal arguments and my skill is related to write custom made appeals. For this I need to focus and concentrate for several hours that is incompatible with chatting on WhatsApp.

I also know that it is part of the culture of the US to bring up your story but I do not really care about it because for us it is gossiping.

I know what are the requirements of the law and precedents so I really care about 2 or 3 questions.

The chart someone complained about is because I´m clear, I do not charge regarding the face of my client or nationality, I do it regarding how complex is the case.

If some people thinks it is too expensive, they are free to look for another professional. On the other hand, I think it is not well paid enough because I know how much I have to work to make thinks happens. People sometimes do not understand that there 2 different procedures: a) when you have DNI you need a paralegal and this is or should be cheap. But when b ) you do not have DNI, then it is a lawsuit before a Federal Court and this is a lot more expensive than what I charge so I compensate it having more cases.

But something I do not accept is people who waste my time, fake consultations and people who invent the facts of the case and change it every five minutes because they want to satisfy their curiosity or they want to built a fake case. One of the persons who complained about me, as far as I remind him, made this.

So, I m not really interested in easy cases and as far as I asserted before, I m not looking for clients here.

Please, do not talk or wite to me , thanks

 

[RandomS]

Ben, good info.

But personally ( no legal facts or date to back it up with), I feel, that it may be dangerous for a new ( not born in Arg) citizen to do so, despite the law stating the opposite.

My thoughts exactly.

Also I cannot find in that law/decree/memo found by ben any reference to foreign born citizens naturalized in Argentina. It only mentions Argentinians naturalized in other countries. That could be a big difference in a legal debate, no?

I know a lot of people who fits in the former category (foreigners naturalized in Argentina). Once they gained citizenship here, they always have used Argentine passports to enter Argentina.

 

[ben]

@Randoms and @ceviche, was going to comment that exactly. It is true - the regulations all discuss specifically Argentines naturalized elsewhere, not foreigners who acquired Argentine citizenship by naturalization.

Is there a difference? Very possibly.
That aside - I think this thread is absolutely perfect. I wish it never moves on from here.