Impact of currency collapse

[sergio]

Nikad, the great thing about being here in your 80s or 90s is that the price of unskilked home health care is much cheaper than in the States. Of course, I would not want to be that advanced in age and not have private health coverage here.

Exactly how much would home health care cost?

 

[sergio]

Here's my retired person's perspective: My wife and I retired in the States two years ago and moved here. We love it! I had been coming here for twenty years and we had owned an apartment since 2012, so we knew the ropes pretty well, but, of course, there is always more to learn when you actually move to a place and need things like private health care coverage and a residency visa, things we didn't need before. While learning to take care of those kinds of things is always frustrating to some degree, regardless of where you are, we found doing them here relatively easy. We really like our doctors; we feel like we get excellent care, even better than in the States in some areas. We also love all the cultural activities that the city has to offer. I don't think any other city in the world offers as much as BA culturally. The problem for me often is choosing between so many different good options. We love the food! As already stated here, having dollars makes life somewhat cheaper than in the States, and with all the devaluation over the last few months, it has gotten even cheaper. For cable and internet (cable offerings better than in the States and internet as good) we paid $75 US last month; before we were paying $100 US here. I pay currently $175 US for health insurance (I'm 57) and my wife pays $198 US (she's 63). I have heard, though, that if you are past 65 and have not been in the program for at least ten years, the premiums are quite a bit higher. But for someone with dollars, I still don't think he/she would find those fees that high. And we do not have health insurance with the top provider, so there is even better and more expensive coverage than we have. To address some of the concerns expressed in this thread, we live in Recoleta, which is a pretty safe barrio. We have never had a problem, even though I must admit that I am always kind of cautious, especially when I am out late at night and/or in a neighborhood that is not known to be as safe (having gone to the theater there, for example). While I would not want to try to work here, given the constant protests and blocked streets, we have had no problem, or few problems I should say, getting to where we need to go, even with all the protests. We don't have a car (and don't feel like we need one), so we don't get stuck in all that mess. That brings to mind another plus: public transportation. It's very good for where we live and for where we need to go. My wife's social security check get deposited here directly (in pesos, though). With that and paying for lots of things with our American credit cards and bringing back cold, hard cash with us, we don't have a problem getting access to our money or dollars. The only thing that gives me pause, as others have expressed, is the worsening economic situation and possible social unrest in the coming months. Earlier this year we flirted with the idea of moving to Spain, but only because we don't like the inheritance laws here: roughly half of your estate goes to family, regardless of what you may have expressed in a will here or in the States. Ironically, Spain is the place that they have tried to pull a passport scam on us and I almost had my passport and all my money stolen. Statistically, though, in terms of violent crime, I think it's the safest country in Europe. It would also be nice to be so much closer to the rest of Europe. We are staying put because we think there is a way around the forced inheritance and because as I said before, we love it here. Argentines make great friends: they are open, passionate, highly social and just a lot of fun to be with. They can also be very loyal.

Unless the law changed recently, ONLY 20% of your estate can go ANYWHERE than to your family. If no will, then everything goes to your family in a vertical line. You could only possibly get around it by violating the law. Also there are many complications to inheritance law that you may not know about. A friend's brother, for example, has debts which have greatly complicated the father's estate. As a result, the family's homes may have to go to remate to settle the debts before the estate can be settled in favor of the other siblings. It seems that your wife will not have had ten years in the health care system when the rates increase - the increase will be at least double. The problem is that it is impossible to predict just how much that will be at the time. After the devaluation in 2001 my health insurance here was unbelievably low in dollar terms then years later with inflation and the exchange rate hardly moving it reached about U$S 400 and that would be at least double at the retirement age if I didn't have many years in the system. As for the cultural aspects of the city, I agree that it is a very cultural city but BA simply isn't in the class of New York, London or some other cities. At least I am thinking of classical music, art museums etc. That's my perspective -- yours may be different. One thing that I find limiting in BA is the distance to other cities of interest. That wouldn't be the case in Europe. Above all, I think your concern should be the value of the dollar in Argentina in the future. I've seen cycles when the dollar bought very little in Argentina and cycles when it bought a lot. It's just not predictable hence retiring in Argentina can be problematic at time in life when people generally need stability.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Well, there is something called brexit...
https://www.google.com.ar/amp/s/www...fecta-brexit-los-britanicos-viven-espana/amp/

 

[Stantucker]

Exactly how much would home health care cost?

I don't know how much it costs here but I would think it would have to be cheaper than in the States. In 2010 we were paying $18 an hour for someone to be with and help my mother-in-law. That was through an agency. I am sure that cost has gone up a lot since then. Here it seems (from what friends have told me) much easier and cheaper to get a paraguaya to do the same thing.

 

[Stantucker]

Unless the law changed recently, ONLY 20% of your estate can go ANYWHERE than to your family. If no will, then everything goes to your family in a vertical line. You could only possibly get around it by violating the law. Also there are many complications to inheritance law that you may not know about. A friend's brother, for example, has debts which have greatly complicated the father's estate. As a result, the family's homes may have to go to remate to settle the debts before the estate can be settled in favor of the other siblings. It seems that your wife will not have had ten years in the health care system when the rates increase - the increase will be at least double. The problem is that it is impossible to predict just how much that will be at the time. After the devaluation in 2001 my health insurance here was unbelievably low in dollar terms then years later with inflation and the exchange rate hardly moving it reached about U$S 400 and that would be at least double at the retirement age if I didn't have many years in the system. As for the cultural aspects of the city, I agree that it is a very cultural city but BA simply isn't in the class of New York, London or some other cities. At least I am thinking of classical music, art museums etc. That's my perspective -- yours may be different. One thing that I find limiting in BA is the distance to other cities of interest. That wouldn't be the case in Europe. Above all, I think your concern should be the value of the dollar in Argentina in the future. I've seen cycles when the dollar bought very little in Argentina and cycles when it bought a lot. It's just not predictable hence retiring in Argentina can be problematic at time in life when people generally need stability.

When I said family gets half your estate, I was thinking of a situation where one of us died before the other. I knew about the 20%, even though I said "roughly" 50%. Doesn't that mean that if I died first, my brothers would get 30% of my half of our estate estate and the other 20% of my 50% could go to someone outside the family of my choosing? Still, we want to be able to decide who gets 100 % of our estate. When I said I was hoping to get around the inheritance law, I was not thinking of breaking the law. A friend who is a banker suggested that if the property was in the name of an association, the inheritance laws would not apply. That is something I am going to have to investigate. Even if insurance rates here double at age 65, it still looks like health insurance would not be more, and possibly less, than Medicare and a good supplemental policy. Of course, that depends on where the dollar is, as you say. Since I started coming in 1996 I have never found prices here to be more than in the States. For me they were about the same in the 90s with the uno a uno. Of course they were much less in 2002, and they have gone back down with the lastest devaluations. I don't like the volatility, not knowing where the dollar is going to be tomorrow, much less ten years from now, but I can't imagine (maybe naively) prices ever being more, or much more, than in the States, because then literally everyone would be poor. I agree that BA does not have the museum's that NYC and many European cities have, but there is tons of classical music and much of it free at places like the the CCK. I think the theater scene here is excellent. The big Broadway productions like "Sunset Boulevard" are not going to have the lastest theatrical bells and whistles, but those shows are still really good and the alternative theater scene is top notch.

 

[sergio]

My understanding is that if a spouse dies, the surviving spouse gets 50% and the children get the other 50%. I am not sure how the 20% works. I assume the surviving spouse gets 50% and the children get 30% but I am not sure. I don't believe siblings are entitled to anything if there is a will. My understanding is that the line of inheritance is always vertical after spouse, i.e. parents and children. This is something you need to verify with a lawyer who specializes in inheritance law. I know of families in which a parent died and the children wanted their 50% before the surviving parent died and the cases had to be settled. For someone from the US or the UK inheritance laws in Argentina present many complications. As for medical insurance, my rate was recently around U$S 400 a month. I have many years in the system so at retirement age (I think it's 66 for the health insurance companies) the rate would be at least double without the over ten years of longevity. For me U$S 800 a month would be a lot more than a supplemental plan in the US. I personally don't think that that kind of money would make it realistic to live in Argentina but that's my view. The economy is so unpredictable that you could never be sure just how much you'd have to pay. Agreed that there is a very good cultural scene in Argentina though not at the level of major cities in Europe and the US where there are also free or inexpensive tickets available.

 

[Stantucker]

Sergio, I mentioned my brothers inheriting 30% of my estate because we don't have children. I had thought my mother would inherit my 30%, but was told by a Argentine friend that it would go to my brothers. Obviously, I need to talk to a lawyer, as you suggest.

 

[nikad]

Sergio, I mentioned my brothers inheriting 30% of my estate because we don't have children. I had thought my mother would inherit my 30%, but was told by a Argentine friend that it would go to my brothers. Obviously, I need to talk to a lawyer, as you suggest.

if you have no children but have parents, it goes to them and not to your siblings. You need to talk to a specialized lawyer. If you incorporate and register properties as owned by the company, rules change and this is how it is done. Under the new civil code you can leave up to 1/3 of your estate to whomever you want via will.

 

[sergio]

Then the law has changed allowing someone to leave 1/3 rather than 1/5 of his estate to whomever he wants. I agree that it's important to see a lawyer who SPECIALIZES in inheritance law.

 

[Johnny]

I suspect you are making it look harder than it is. I realize that British citizens are EU members and therefore living in Spain is easy. Many Brits of modest means live full or part time in Spain and they often own modest homes. It is not so easy for a US citizen however I should think that someone with a respectable retirement income who wants only to live in Spain and spend there money there will be able to jump through the hoops. I can tell you that getting permanent residence in Argentina is not necessarily easy. Spain and Portugal may not be simple but is getting a visa for a retirree really so hard as to make it not worthwhile - and is it so easy to get one for Argentina?

I researched Spain and it wasn't easy or simple. Of course the more money you can throw at it the easier it becomes. Portugal, on the other hand, is much easier to arrange.