In Memoriam, Charlie Hebdo

[Caliexpat]

Bulshit,palestinians are not massacred,palestinians,are not being denied their arab identity (palestinian identity does not exist),the state of israel funds schools that teach in arabic language,kurdish language is baned in turkey. Islam is not forbidden in Israel,arabs sit in the knesset,kurds,do not sit in the turkish parliament. Freedom of speahc is legal in Israel,in turkey,critizising the country is against the law.

Freedom of speahc is legal in Israel

You're right - as long as you don't say the wrong thing at the wrong time. There are no true democracies in this world - Israel is not an exception.

If Israel could do this to a young American Jew, imagine what Palestinians face every day
https://www.youtube....h?v=9QiV9xn0RbI

palestinians are not massacred,palestinians,are not being denied their arab identity (palestinian identity does not exist)"

Not sure how to even respond to this statement. I realize that many Jewish folks(especially Israelis) are some of the most brainwashed people on the planet because of the intense amount of Zionist propaganda out there as well as a shared history of persecution and an "everybody is out to get us" mentality. However that should not stop a person from utilizing their critical thinking skills and exercising their true objectivity.

For example, I'm an American but it doesn't mean that I agree with everything the US govt. does. I'm the first to question or criticize when I see it doing something wrong because I don't want it being done in my name. I certainly don't want my tax dollars going towards paying for something I don't believe in.

I don't have a dog in the fight. I'm not Jewish, I'm not Palestinian. I simply call it the way I see it. The Palestinians of Gaza City live in the world's largest open prison where they are denied even the most basic of comforts that we in the West all take for granted. Their land is being stolen and they are being systemically exterminated while having wasted 50 plus year attempting to find a 2 state solution. What Israel is doing to the Palestinian people is abominable and its leaders should be executed for war crimes just as they executed the Nazis for their war crimes. It's as plain and simple as that.

And please don't fall back on the same old tired excuses of Israel just trying to defend itself. To use an analogy, it would be the same as a rapist going to court and suing his victim because she scratched him on the arm while he was raping her. It's absurd.

 

[Matt84]

Muslims, and others from the 3d world, were invited in order to demographically dilute the native European populations for the purpose of buying votes.

Ernest Bramah describes this practice (in England) as early as 1907.

 

[Matt84]

You're right - as long as you don't say the wrong thing at the wrong time. There are no true democracies in this world - Israel is not an exception.

Your equation of Freedom with Democracy betrays your unmistakable American type of brain-washing.

 

[ben]

And please don't fall back on the same old tired excuses of Israel just trying to defend itself. To use an analogy, it would be the same as a rapist going to court and suing his victim because she scratched him on the arm while he was raping her. It's absurd.

Actually no - if we're going to use the rather disagreeable case of rape as an analogy, I guess the best you could come up with is of a 13-year-old girl serially gang-banged by a group of 22-year-olds, in the park, on the street, and in school, and in her own house as well, which her family had shared with the above-mentioned gentlemen and some rooms of which were disputed. At some point, the girl, now 19 learned martial arts, and managed to get anyone from the above-mentioned families who comes close to her rooms will be treated to some bondage, and be treated to her strap-on. At which the entire original collective of 22-year-olds, now nearly 30, scream 'Rapist!!!'

I am sure that you are aware that when 6 armies invaded Israel in 1948, there was not a Jew in any of the 'Palestinian' lands, which were controlled by Egypt and Jordan. Nor at the onset of the 1967 Six Day War, at which the stated goal was to drive the Jews into the sea and subsequent to which the Palestinian areas first came under Jewish control. I'm sure you're also aware of the 1929 Hebron massacre, 20 years before any kind of Jewish independence. I'm also sure you're aware of the fate of those Jews who lived across the Middle East at the time of Israeli independence, who for the most part left their possessions, land, etc behind and just got out. (Not hearing much of their plight - they found where to go and went. Kind of like the 2000 years before that).

Actually, I don't think you're aware of any of the above, and are simply out of your element here.

 

[Caliexpat]

Your equation of Freedom with Democracy betrays your unmistakable American type of brain-washing.

Sorry pal but the 2 go hand in hand in case you hadn't noticed. Maybe you've been living in Argentina too long? Today's version of what many consider to be a democracy would not be so if it did not also include freedom of speech. I think this is pretty much accepted and understood on its face. Not sure what you're trying to prove but I'll leave you now as I've got bigger fish to fry.

 

[Caliexpat]

Shockingly, I am aware of the events you mentioned. I know it's difficult to fathom but believe it or not, some of us actually read, yes, even Americans. In short, you don't know me, my experiences, where I've traveled, where I've lived and the people I've met along the way so let's stop with the pettiness of "you simply don't know" as a pretext of dismissing and ignoring a person's opinion. It's an old tactic that is too often used by Israeli apologists as a means of deflecting criticism away from Israel. Sorry, but I believe that the entire world is now actually starting to understand the situation for what it is - genocide of the Palestinian people.

 

[sleslie23]

Bulshit,palestinians are not massacred,palestinians,are not being denied their arab identity (palestinian identity does not exist),the state of israel funds schools that teach in arabic language,kurdish language is baned in turkey.
Islam is not forbidden in Israel,arabs sit in the knesset,kurds,do not sit in the turkish parliament.
Freedom of speahc is legal in Israel,in turkey,critizising the country is against the law.

EDIT: No use beating a dead horse. I should have taken Magico's advice and refrained from commenting on this thread. It's just a mirror or every comment thread on every news story about this tragic incident.

 

[ben]

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We can argue for a long time about 'justifies' - and I certainly don't think Id like to debate it with you - but I will point out that my words were not discussing 'justification', but rather addressed your shockingly clueless, callous, and just crazy assertion that Israel's claim of defending itself was like a rapist complaining of being scratched on the arm. To equate what Jews have gone through over the past 100 years in Israel - and what they would go through again tomorrow if not for overwhelming military strength - to a scratch on the arm is insane, I have no other way of describing it - and can only be somehow explained by boundless ignorance. I continue to assert that you have nary a clue of the happenings I mentioned.

 

[ben]

You're ignorant of the situation is Israel and Turkey. I know Turkish Christians and I know Israeli Christians. I've also been to both countries. Palestenian Christians have 2nd class citizen status in Israel. If you don't believe me, I can put you in contact with many Palestinian Christians currently living in the SF Bay area who are happy to no longer be living in Israel. You can babble all you want about how great the Israeli democracy is, but it's an aparteid state. The situation is 100x worse for Muslim Palestinians.

But hey, people were nice to me, a white, half-Jew American when I visited, so it must be a paradise.

Why don't we compare apples to apples and discuss the freedoms of a Jew living in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Palestinian Authority control, or even Turkey? Just stop.

Not even mentioning the huge Iranian Jewish communities in Beverly Hills and New York who escaped from Khomeini. I'm sure your Bay Area friends can understand.

EDIT: By the time I'd written this, you'd edited your post. I'm on the phone, so my posts take time. As long as people are respectful, non-repetitive and on topic, talk is a good thing.

 

[Caliexpat]

We can argue for a long time about 'justifies' - and I certainly don't think Id like to debate it with you - but I will point out that my words were not discussing 'justification', but rather addressed your shockingly clueless, callous, and just crazy assertion that Israel's claim of defending itself was like a rapist complaining of being scratched on the arm. To equate what Jews have gone through over the past 100 years in Israel - and what they would go through again tomorrow if not for overwhelming military strength - to a scratch on the arm is insane, I have no other way of describing it - and can only be somehow explained by boundless ignorance. I continue to assert that you have nary a clue of the happenings I mentioned.

Your comment is straight out of Zionist Propaganda 101. I've heard this same old tired excuse a thousand times as a justification/explanation for Israel's current war crimes. Sorry but I and many others see right through it fortunately. You can continue to assert that those who hold differing opinions from yourself don't have a "clue" but you'd be wrong. It's just more of the same ad hominem attacks. Surely it's not Israel that holds any blame, it's the speaker's fault for not having a grasp of the situation.

By the way, I wasn't attempting to discuss/compare what has happened to the Jews the past 100 years with my analogy. My comment was a response to a different post regarding how the Palestinians are currently being treated. I repeat that no matter what events the Jews have experienced the past 100 years, it doesn't justify Israel's current actions.