Industria Argentina , Is There Anything That Doesnt Break?

[arlean]

Absolutely wonderful discussion. Ries, I especially appreciated your comparison of appliances in Argentina and in NYC. I've been away from the US so long the update was good. But Ries' isn't the only one I really liked. Just that those specially interested me. Also lots of people I know own Vitamix's. For people interested in nutrition, raw soups and things like that, nothing else really does the job. Plus Vitamix is quality. It will last forever. If you really use a blender, you can go through several while the Vitamix is still faithfully doing its job.

I care about those soups but I get by with my Argentina-made Atma and sacrifice some of the total smoothness of the Vitamix.

I buy Argentina products unless I know it's junk, and I shop local mom and pops instead of the French corporate stores, even when I pay a few pesos more. I say keep our money in our own community, support our local families. Support Argentina where it makes sense. But I also don't want to be cheated and ripped off by people who don't care about producing quality, so I LOVE when y'all complain about certain products.

Thank you for all the intelligent, factual posts. And thanks to JohnW100 for starting this. Good job!

 

[Jaredberryman]

I find that products here are a lot like a lot of other things in Argentina. There is a quite a lot of complete crap, while there are a few industries that produce incredible products. One of the problems right now is that most companies do not have any leadership with forward thinking vision. The Argentine government has given a huge advantage to local industry, but companies here believe that at some point, that will change drastically. So instead of investing in infrastructure and vastly improving the quality of their product, they try to produce as much as they can as cheaply as possible in order to make a quick cash grab. Most of these manufacturers believe that their time is short and that these policies will change, so since their products are the only things the local public can buy because there is nothing else, why improve? They also basically get to charge whatever they want, since there are only a few manufacturers in each product category.

In order to change this mentality, the government needs to make some major policy changes. They need to A) make it easier and affordable for the local manufacturers to improve their products by letting them import the raw products and machines that are not produced in Argentina (this is not currently happening). B) They need to make it much easy for entrepreneurs to start their own manufacturing businesses. This means changing a host of laws that make running a business easier and more transparent. The government should be protecting and helping manufacturing start-ups, but instead, it makes an industrial start-up nearly impossible. So the same morons as always that had the same factories that produced the same crappy products for the last 50 years are the only ones profiting from the current regime's position. The government and public here don't seem to understand how competition in the economic sphere is actually good for everyone involved. So, if I want to buy a screwdriver, I have two options, and that is all. Neither is a good screwdriver. What if you let local companies here import the machines for making a quality screwdriver? Prices would go down for all screwdrivers, and you would have the option of paying more for a nice screwdriver. But of course, that makes good sense in the real world, so we'll never see it happen during the K years.

 

[Matiasba]

Internal competition is good. More than good, its great, and it is also necessary. But as I said before, external competition will kill these factories, these argentine quality jobs. It already happened. Twice. So the solution would be give them internal competition till they are (more) competitive just to fight with big corporations. Then eliminate imported restrictions. Until then, the government must protect them, give them subsidios, etc, and stimulate their growth.

 

[camberiu]

Until then, the government must protect them, give them subsidios, etc, and stimulate their growth.

And what could possibly go wrong with this?

 

[CarryOn]

Internal competition is good. More than good, its great, and it is also necessary. But as I said before, external competition will kill these factories, these argentine quality jobs. It already happened. Twice. So the solution would be give them internal competition till they are (more) competitive just to fight with big corporations. Then eliminate imported restrictions. Until then, the government must protect them, give them subsidios, etc, and stimulate their growth.

Even if some protection of industry is justified from a national sense (and many here wouldn't disagree with that), it is proof positive of the current government's economic ineptitude that they restrict the importation of industrial equipment needed to set up competitive industries, and heavily tax exports that could make these industries economic leaders in at least Latin America.

There is so much that can be changed under the current system that the next President truly will have a chance to see some huge short-term economic growth gains from some basic rationalization alone.

 

[germano]

Even if some protection of industry is justified from a national sense (and many here wouldn't disagree with that), it is proof positive of the current government's economic ineptitude that they restrict the importation of industrial equipment needed to set up competitive industries, and heavily tax exports that could make these industries economic leaders in at least Latin America.

There is so much that can be changed under the current system that the next President truly will have a chance to see some huge short-term economic growth gains from some basic rationalization alone.

I think you are absolutely right. There are two separate issues here:
1 - protection of a local industry, of the local jobs, etc.
2 - the various mistakes the government makes in trying to implement it

 

[johnw100]

Interesting that you mention AEG. That company went belly up a long time ago and the only thing left is the brand. I remember people in Germany joking about the bad quality of their products and that AEG stands for "Auspacken Einschalten Geht nicht" -- which means something like 'unwrap it, turn it on, it doesn't work'. The brand is currently owned by Electrolux - and Electrolux sells products under their own brand here in Argentina.

Well I still have an AEG Cooker hob, Hood and dishwasher all working well after 7 years of use back in the UK. They were always well regarded there. Electrolux in Argentina is a company I avoid after purchasing 3 items from them all of which were pretty poor quality in my opinion.

 

[germano]

Well I still have an AEG Cooker hob, Hood and dishwasher all working well after 7 years of use back in the UK. They were always well regarded there. Electrolux in Argentina is a company I avoid after purchasing 3 items from them all of which were pretty poor quality in my opinion.

If you bought it after 1994 then it was definitely made by another company and only branded AEG. If you bought it after 2005 then it was most likely made by Electrolux (there are apparently some other licensees that use the AEG brand). AEG used to manufacture their own quality products - but that was before 1994.

 

[Matiasba]

Even if some protection of industry is justified from a national sense (and many here wouldn't disagree with that), it is proof positive of the current government's economic ineptitude that they restrict the importation of industrial equipment needed to set up competitive industries, and heavily tax exports that could make these industries economic leaders in at least Latin America.

There is so much that can be changed under the current system that the next President truly will have a chance to see some huge short-term economic growth gains from some basic rationalization alone.

Of course the restrictions affect a lot to these industries. In fact, industry production fell down after the restrictions, national production went down, even the economic growth descend from 7-8% to 2%. I thought that might affected inflation, slowing it down but it didnt.
The restrictions are important to mantein superavit, thats the main reason, they dont want to have a negative trade balance, as we did several times in this country and ended all in a huge crisis. Thats why in some ways I can understand this measure.

 

[Ries]

I find that products here are a lot like a lot of other things in Argentina. There is a quite a lot of complete crap, while there are a few industries that produce incredible products. One of the problems right now is that most companies do not have any leadership with forward thinking vision. The Argentine government has given a huge advantage to local industry, but companies here believe that at some point, that will change drastically. So instead of investing in infrastructure and vastly improving the quality of their product, they try to produce as much as they can as cheaply as possible in order to make a quick cash grab. Most of these manufacturers believe that their time is short and that these policies will change, so since their products are the only things the local public can buy because there is nothing else, why improve? They also basically get to charge whatever they want, since there are only a few manufacturers in each product category.

In order to change this mentality, the government needs to make some major policy changes. They need to A) make it easier and affordable for the local manufacturers to improve their products by letting them import the raw products and machines that are not produced in Argentina (this is not currently happening). B) They need to make it much easy for entrepreneurs to start their own manufacturing businesses. This means changing a host of laws that make running a business easier and more transparent. The government should be protecting and helping manufacturing start-ups, but instead, it makes an industrial start-up nearly impossible. So the same morons as always that had the same factories that produced the same crappy products for the last 50 years are the only ones profiting from the current regime's position. The government and public here don't seem to understand how competition in the economic sphere is actually good for everyone involved. So, if I want to buy a screwdriver, I have two options, and that is all. Neither is a good screwdriver. What if you let local companies here import the machines for making a quality screwdriver? Prices would go down for all screwdrivers, and you would have the option of paying more for a nice screwdriver. But of course, that makes good sense in the real world, so we'll never see it happen during the K years.

I agree with you about everything you say, except about the screwdrivers- especially in terms of manual tools, there are perfectly good argentine made versions available. Argentina, with its long standing auto and agricultural equipment industries, actually has pretty decent drop forging industries. However, you need to go to a real industrial ferreteria to find these better quality hand tools. But they are out there. Wrenches, hammers, screwdrivers, and so on, hecho in Argentina, are made in good quality. Of course, they are priced accordingly.
Now, when it comes to electric tools, thats another story. I buy Metabo, in Argentina, and pay a premium for the imported quality.
Larger tools, however, get better again- industrial sized drill presses, metalworking machinery, sanders, and similar machines made in argentina can actually be quite good, and reasonably priced compared to the european made equivalents.

(I am a life long tool user, and own, on two continents, most likely more tools than everybody else on this forum combined)