inflation for 2010

[darmanad]

Well, as we already debate in some other thread, inflation is normal in this country:
http://baexpats.org/expat-life/12119-ignorance-bliss-3.html

"
Originally Posted by Bajo_cero2
"Well guys, you are green about inflación. This is absolutely normal in this country and this is not big deal. If food raises 20% I raise 20% my fees. And everybody do the same. Unions fights for a salary raise and so on."

You are confusing the issues. No one has said there has been abnormal inflation or that inflation is abnormal in Argentina. What has been said is that the government has lied about the rate of inflation - due to its typically Argentinian oh-so-clever attempt to cheat the default bondholders whose payments are tied to inflation.
Moreover, what you trivialize as "not big deal" is, on the contrary, a very big and nervewracking deal to the psyches of many Argentines. Argentines may have become more adept at dealing with hyperinflation, but it nevertheless takes a toll on the health and well being of the majority of citizens. And not everybody, especially seniors on pensions that fail to keep up, can easily deal with it

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Well, this is Argentina and when they stop inflation it was worst, remember December 20.2001?

In fact I explained in the other thread that this country finances through inflation and has zero cost for the state because they just print money. During the 90´s they stop printing money, there was no inflation and the external debt rise 90 billion dollars, 100% more, so: is inflation bad???? In this country this is not only normal, somehow seems to be healthy. Weird right? This is Argentina.

Where do you thing that the money for retired people come from? They print it!

However, I believe that a huge % of inflation is artificial regarding the elections this year.

Nowadays there are no prices, and this is typical in this country when prices rise are manipulated for political reasons.

Let´s see, meat rise a lot but didn´t the farmer´s leader asserted that the lomo should cost 80 pesos when it was about 15?

Food in general rise a lot and guess what, farmers did it.

How do you explain that food is cheaper in NYC? It is ridiculous!

In fact I think people who assert that the Armageddon is coming because of inflation is missing the point. Ridiculous situations are standard the year before elections because people like Duhalde don´t care about destroying the country if they win the elections doing it.

Regards

 

[Hache]

The real question is how long this can last and what happens when the music stops.

Well, I think I watched that movie a couple times before... people taking the streets, cacerolazos, president fleeing the Pink House in a helicopter... It never happened to a Peronist administration, but there's always a first time for everything, and these people are making so many enemies I wouldn't be surprised if it happens.

Will we ever behave like a REAL nation? Will we stop being a joke one day? Because it looks like most people here are liking it... I'm not.

 

[darmanad]

Well, this is Argentina and when they stop inflation it was worst, remember December 20.2001?

In fact I explained in the other thread that this country finances through inflation and has zero cost for the state because they just print money. so: is inflation bad???? In this country this is not only normal, somehow seems to be healthy. Weird right? This is Argentina.

Will we ever behave like a REAL nation? Will we stop being a joke one day? Because it looks like most people here are liking it... I'm not.

Two different points of view on the hyperinflation that Argentina has experienced, on and off (mostly on), over the past 4 decades.
Bajo_cero2 thinks the nation has adapted to it so well that it is actually healthy whereas Hache recalls when it has contributed to disruptive government upheavel, not to mention the military coup in 1976, and worries that too many people seem to share Baja's opinion.

I have no hardcore data to cite, but it appears countries like Chile, Uruguay and Brasil seem to be advancing economically more rapidly than Argentina despite the fact that Argentina has equal, if not better, resources e.g. an educated populace, raw materials, commodities, farmland, etc (minus the petroleum of Brasil). One could conclude that its unique history of comparative hyperinflation has played a significant part in dragging on strong economic development, the kind that Argentina enjoyed in the 1940s and early 50s.
I can not comprehend why any progressively minded Argentine would condone continuous hyperinflation. I don't think there can be any serious dispute that it undermines real economic growth. The nature of Bajo_cero2's posts that I have read at this site indicate to me that he is a well educated, socially conscious advocate for civil justice especially the interests of the poor. How discouraging to observe that he is content with the economic status quo, even an apologist for it. I think he is misguided.

I am not really well informed about the history of socioeconomic conditions in Argentina, but what I have personally found curious over the 4 decades I have been coming here and one of the many reasons I think greater socioeconomic progress has not not been achieved is the absence of a coherent student movement. Normally, such a group would act as the catalyst for positive social and economic change, but the youth in Argentina seem to be lacking a critical mass. I don't know why university students seem to be lacking organization, but I find it to be in stark contrast with their counterparts in the US and many European countries.

p.s. Out of curiousity, how did University students react to the military government in the mid-70s and to the war it started in the Malvina
/Falkland islands? To the corruption of the Menem administration?

 

[elhombresinnombre]

(snip) I am not really well informed about the history of socioeconomic conditions in Argentina, but what I have personally found curious over the 4 decades I have been coming here and one of the many reasons I think greater socioeconomic progress has not not been achieved is the absence of a coherent student movement. Normally, such a group would act as the catalyst for positive social and economic change, but the youth in Argentina seem to be lacking a critical mass. I don't know why university students seem to be lacking organization, but I find it to be in stark contrast with their counterparts in the US and many European countries.

p.s. Out of curiousity, how did University students react to the military government in the mid-70s and to the war it started in the Malvina
/Falkland islands? To the corruption of the Menem administration?

I can give you over one hundred reasons why this was so in the 70s and 80s.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

I am not really well informed about the history of socioeconomic conditions in Argentina, but what I have personally found curious over the 4 decades I have been coming here and one of the many reasons I think greater socioeconomic progress has not not been achieved is the absence of a coherent student movement. Normally, such a group would act as the catalyst for positive social and economic change, but the youth in Argentina seem to be lacking a critical mass. I don't know why university students seem to be lacking organization, but I find it to be in stark contrast with their counterparts in the US and many European countries.

p.s. Out of curiousity, how did University students react to the military government in the mid-70s and to the war it started in the Malvina
/Falkland islands? To the corruption of the Menem administration?

The genocidal killed the new generation of leaders. The lack of proper leadership was our worst issue during 80`s and 90´s. The K marriage survived, you might agree or not with their policy, but they changed this country a lot, imagine this country with 30.000 more of them.

Regards

 

[Bajo_cero2]

I have no hardcore data to cite, but it appears countries like Chile, Uruguay and Brasil seem to be advancing economically more rapidly than Argentina despite the fact that Argentina has equal, if not better, resources e.g. an educated populace, raw materials, commodities, farmland, etc (minus the petroleum of Brasil). One could conclude that its unique history of comparative hyperinflation has played a significant part in dragging on strong economic development, the kind that Argentina enjoyed in the 1940s and early 50s.
I can not comprehend why any progressively minded Argentine would condone continuous hyperinflation. I don't think there can be any serious dispute that it undermines real economic growth. The nature of Bajo_cero2's posts that I have read at this site indicate to me that he is a well educated, socially conscious advocate for civil justice especially the interests of the poor. How discouraging to observe that he is content with the economic status quo, even an apologist for it. I think he is misguided.

Inflation is complex.

I don´t defend inflation I only explain that in this case is healthy. Why? Because the state has not enough wealth to pay the bills. So, they can print money (inflation) or they can lend money (no inflation but more external debt).

Peron did very well economically but he was overthrown by a military government. Since 1955 to 1973 the Peronism was forbidden den and there was a cold war between the farmers and the Peronistas (industrial project). The Peronistas controlled the unions so they had power enough to produce inflation and finally to overthrown the dictator or the radical president. But they weren´t able to come back to the power because the party was forbidden. So, if something peronistas like Duhalde know very well is how to overthrown a government through inflation, crisis, Parque Indoamericano situations, etc.

Finally in 1973 Peron was President again but it was too late, he was too old.

The Dictadura came back in 1976 and they destroyed the industry as part of a plan for destroying Peronismo`s power (Unions) because the farmers thinks that we should not have any industry. We should import everything and export soy and whatever.

When democracy came back again they had a huge external debt.

1989 hiperinflation was created by a truck driver´s Union strike plus the FMI denied to lend money.

As you see, inflation was the consequence of the Argentinian cold war that became a genocide between 1976 and 1983.

On the international side, Argentina was developing nuclear weapons financed by Iran, so there was a boycott against argentina`s exportations. Predictable, right?

Internal affairs plus stupid external policy made us poorer. Because farmer don´t care if the country is poorer because this means they are richer. Peronistas don´t care to destroy the country if they get the power doing it. That´s the story of our national failure.

I have to go. See you in 2 weeks after vacations. Regards

 

[ianmcguinness]

Unions, whilst can be a good thing, seem to also be a nightmare waiting to happen with a 'screw everyone but us' mentality.

I am not gonna pull out economics books and start preaching pro's and con's of economic policy but it does seem that a lot of the 'leaders' need to start looking at the bigger picture rather that just looking through their rose tinted glasses.

 

[clooz]

US Inflation, Money Supply and un-employment stats from a second source

http://www.shadowstats.com/