Is it all down to lack of respect???

[fifs2]

My husband attributes all Argentina's woes to a basic lack of respect between individuals..from crazy driving to scamming your best friend the idea of solidaridad is nothing more than that..an idea. On monday this week we received a school note advising us that our son's teacher was leaving, the next day for a better paid job in the public sector meaning less work days and hours and more pay. My son, sobbed a little as he's a very sweey 7 yr old.
I am pleased to say 92% of the mums felt infuriated re lack of prior notice, lack of respect with such a sudden mid-term departure. not to mention thatthis teacher only joined the school in March after many previous applications but the 2 parents (the 8%) who disagreed basically said "well she can get more money elsewhere good luck to her"...they simply couldnt understand the idea of vocation., notice period, quitting mid-term or not applying for a new job if you have intentions to leave it within 2 months (the public school places do not process quickly).
I tried so hard to say this isnt the right way to do things without imposing my culture but this is just a simple example of how day to day individuals put their own monetary needs before anything else...which you may justify due to inflation but this is middle class territory where noone is starving to death.
Soledaridad, patria, luca..all just empty words because actions peak louder than words.

 

[ndcj]

I tried so hard to say this isnt the right way to do things without imposing my culture but this is just a simple example of how day to day individuals put their own monetary needs before anything else...which you may justify due to inflation but this is middle class territory where noone is starving to death.

I doubt that the wages being paid to the teachers in your child's school are anything close to "middle class territory".

Last I heard, the average primary or secondary school teaching position in BsAs pays around ARS2500/month. Which middle class lifestyle do you get for that???

 

[fifs2]

I doubt that the wages being paid to the teachers in your child's school are anything close to "middle class territory".

Last I heard, the average primary or secondary school teaching position in BsAs pays around ARS2500/month. Which middle class lifestyle do you get for that???

You really are reading too many union posters in the city. Bsas teachers outnumber developed countries by lat least 2.5:1 and have great salaries. This teacher in question has 20yrs private teaching experince and 10yrs public experience as a pyscopaedagoga and earned 8k pesos per month with 3 months paid leave. if that isnt middle class I dont know what is..see previous posting re working to middle class salary levels for 2011...

 

[John.St]

My husband attributes all Argentina's woes to a basic lack of respect between individuals..from crazy driving to scamming your best friend the idea of solidaridad is nothing more than that..an idea.

It is my impression from many years of observation, and discussions with Latinoamericanos - I recognize that I may have misunderstood or misinterpretated something - that one of the main problems in the Spanish speaking states of South America and much of Latinoamerica in general, is that the states lack the glue that holds societies together, the feeling that we are all one family - they are states but not nations.

One Argentino friend said that it had to do with the "youth" of Argentina, but independencia was 194 years ago.

In Argentina, but equally in other states, many people (the majority?) look at it this way: "I am an Argentino, but the others are not, so I have no obligations towards them".

In my home country I see a nation, where very few have doubts about that "all the others citizens are my cousins", perhaps seventeen times removed, but still cousins, one large family.

 

[sesamosinsal]

In my home country I see a nation, where very few have doubts about that "all the others citizens are my cousins", perhaps seventeen times removed, but still cousins, one large family.

In my perfect world, we'd spread this idea of all being "cousins" on a global scale, and not confine it to social constructs, such as last names, race, nations, etc.

The other day I was delivering an item to a woman in Palermo. At the same time, there was a guy delivering a pizza. When she came to the door, we started talking, and she eventually asked me where I was from. I told her I was from the United States, and the guy delivering a pizza (still waiting for the customer to come down) said, "Wow, ¡que nivel!" Why is it that a person delivering something from a place called the "United States" is more valued than a person delivering something from a placed called "Argentina"? It all made me cringe inside. We don't need to use nationalist appeals to make people feel as if they are a part of something, and it seems to me that doing so only results in inequality and feelings of superiority/inferiority on the global stage.

 

[mendozanow]

My theory, after living and teaching here for many years, are that almost all Argentineans are spoiled children who never grow up. The older people I talk to here, say in their 60's and 70's, are somewhat different, and they decry the changes that occur, and that people were more polite and considerate to each other up to the 80's. Now, they mostly act like spoiled brats. They never follow through on promises. It is the pathology of 4 year old children out-of-control in adult bodies.

If you observe how Argentine parents cater to their children's whims, it is not surprising.

 

[John.St]

My theory, after living and teaching here for many years, are that almost all Argentineans are spoiled children who never grow up.

I am going to snitch on you to you know whom I love to attend funerals with all those wreaths and flowers and a party afterwards

 

[syngirl]

I think when Argentines say "its because we're such a young country" they don't necessarily mean their entire history, they mean their time as a democratic nation.

There is awareness here of how this individualism is eroding any notion of solidaridad, but whether or not it can be reversed has yet to be seen.

When the man from La Plata was killed a few weeks back by a flare lit at a concert it became a hot point for a lot of noticieros and new magazine shows to talk about this actitud of individualism -- using the bengala incident as a jumping off point to talk about other issues wherein the individual thinks of himself far before any of his peers.

If you look on youtube for Duro de domar or 678 + bengala you can find clips talking about this issue.

 

[John.St]

We don't need to use nationalist appeals to make people feel as if they are a part of something, and it seems to me that doing so only results in inequality and feelings of superiority/inferiority on the global stage.

What a beautiful hypothesis: "The best of all possible worlds", first Leibniz's version then Voltaire's rather different ditto.

Who would you rather see dead, your child or 100 chinese coal miners?

I am afraid that everything is this real world, from the family, through the neighborhood and village and up to continents is about being them or us, whether we like it or not.

Under my hand and seal,
Cynic #1

 

[John.St]

My theory, after living and teaching here for many years, are that almost all Argentineans are spoiled children who never grow up. The older people I talk to here, say in their 60's and 70's, are somewhat different, and they decry the changes that occur, and that people were more polite and considerate to each other up to the 80's. Now, they mostly act like spoiled brats. They never follow through on promises. It is the pathology of 4 year old children out-of-control in adult bodies.

If you observe how Argentine parents cater to their children's whims, it is not surprising.

You are not going to get away with this in one piece

Sokrates told everyone who would listen (plus those who wouldn't - and look what that got him!) about the hopeless youth 2,500 years ago.

Since then it's been down the slope, each generation worse than the previous - that is, if we are to believe the older generations, who don't see themselves as worse than the previous ones.

The people I mentioned "... Argentinos .. the way they burst out from e.g. shops into the street as if they were all alone in the world." in http://baexpats.org/expat-life/15934-argentine-mysteries-2.html#post116757 are anywhere from 20 to 60-70 years old (the older ones cannot burst out from anywhere, and the younger ones rarely do, in my experience).

The 50-70 years old were not small children in the 1980's.

Edit: I am actually surprised at, and impressed by, how gentle and respectful the young Argentinos under 20 years are, at least here in Mendoza. /Edit