Is It Time to Bail Out of the US?

[RWS]

. . . . his white predecessors - all of whom could be accused of lying during the oath of office.

Gross exaggeration lessens credibility, Mr. Marx.

 

[John.St]

Bob Herbert writes well. I read this piece about a week back. Though these are still stray whispers, a few people are starting to mutter about "societal breakdown." The USA is in a state of crisis, up the proverbial creek without a paddle.

The good news is that the US has had several serious crisis and thus acquired the knowledge how to fight them and get through the tunnel, although somewhat bruised.

The important thing is to stop all the blabbermouths who tries to prevent the recovery because their past murky behaviour will be exposed.

The US is a great country, but some of its shady "citizens" need to be tought the old proverb: Don't cheat, don't steal, don't lie. More social pressure and fewer lawyers might be a good idea.

 

[RWS]

The good news is that the US has had several serious crisis and thus acquired the knowledge how to fight them and get through the tunnel, although somewhat bruised.
. . . . Don't cheat, don't steal, don't lie. More social pressure . . . might be a good idea.

The populace has become too incohesive -- some don't even speak English, let alone subscribe to the formerly pervasive morality -- to give much effect to social pressure.

The good news is that the US has had several serious crisis and thus acquired the knowledge how to fight them and get through the tunnel, although somewhat bruised.
. . . . Don't cheat, don't steal, don't lie. . . . [F]ewer lawyers might be a good idea.

They're so numerous in part because social pressure and some consciences are so weak; but law cannot substitute fully for either.

 

[John.St]

The populace has become too incohesive -- some don't even speak English, let alone subscribe to the formerly pervasive morality -- to give much effect to social pressure.
They're so numerous in part because social pressure and some consciences are so weak; but law cannot substitute fully for either.

No amount of laws can substitute for social pressure.

"Mr. Brown has cheated Ms. Smith, he cannot be trusted" is the worst that can happen to Brown in a moral society - he is outside society and has to live without any assistance from his neighbours.

Where I come from this means make amends and repair damages or move elsewhere, 'cause you are (as it used to be called in England) 'cut by the county', your (now ex-) friends cross the street to avoid you or pretend they don't see and hear you, the snow has been removed from the sidewalk - except in front of Brown's house, etc.

 

[RWS]

No amount of laws can substitute for social pressure. . . . Where I come from this means make amends and repair damages or move elsewhere . . . .

But Denmark remains a cohesive society, John, with the great majority of the population actually Danes. This homogeneity has been lacking in the United States since the mid colonial period, three centuries ago.

To substitute for ethnic identity, America adopted a more complex structure of a common language (obviously necessary, as well-developed communication is indispensable for any society beyond hunter-gatherer), a broad common faith (more or less evangelical Christianity, though exceptionally varied in its manifestations), and an understanding of and adherence to the law (with lapses, but generally subscribed to as generally consistent with personal and societal morality and susceptible of change, usually gradual). As anyone who's lived in the country during the past fifty or sixty years can tell you, English is no longer universal (and increasingly is spoken poorly even by many monolinguists), probably no common faith still exists, and law is flouted (often cynically, often because it seems increasingly distant from a more principled morality).

Can Humpty Dumpty be put back together again?

 

[John.St]

But Denmark remains a cohesive society, John, with the great majority of the population actually Danes.

True, but this has been threatened within the past 10 or 15 years by immigration of poor, ill (or un-) educated Middle Easterners, who sponge on, and yet critizise, the society, which pays them some 9,500 kroner (US$ 1,800) a month per head for doing nothing but exist.

This has lately inspired the majority of Danes to strengthen the glue, which holds a society together: solidarity and mutual trust.

Many of the better educated immigrants, however, have accepted these values, even to the extent that a local branch of the most viral anti-immigration party has elected an immigrant as their chairman - he is dead against immigrants who refuse to learn the language and who sponge on society.

As anyone who's lived in the country during the past fifty or sixty years can tell you, English is no longer universal (and increasingly is spoken poorly even by many monolinguists), probably no common faith still exists, and law is flouted (often cynically, often because it seems increasingly distant from a more principled morality).

Read (famous author's name forgotten) about oil, and the meat industry in Chicago in the 1920s - same as today.

Can Humpty Dumpty be put back together again?

If the mindset can be changed - IMO first of all "The American Dream" to get as rich as possible - the end justifies the means - "How much is your brothel willing to pay for my sister? Deal!" .

Of course the "The best ... The happiest ..." is more or less crap and coincidence, and I really doubt that Danmark is the happiest place on Earth if such exists, but I suggest you watch "Denmark happiest place on earth" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTGKUwMegZ4 which gives a good idea about why one can get the impression.

Add this: "Where are the Happiest Places in the World ??" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri2NSwV5X48

 

[steveinbsas]

Read (famous author's name forgotten) about oil, and the meat industry in Chicago in the 1920s - same as today.

Perhaps you are referring to "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair (published in 1906).

 

[John.St]

Perhaps you are referring to "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair (published in 1906).

Author name correct, I read it probably 25 years ago, so I accept your date too - my Alzheimer, my Alzheimer at work

 

[RWS]

Good comments, John, with too little time for me to respond now. But I do want to mention that

. . . . If the mindset can be changed - IMO first of all "The American Dream" to get as rich as possible - the end justifies the means . . . .

is not what America or "the American dream" is about. It was, instead, the reified belief that the common man can govern himself, free of prince or prelate and directly responsible to God, his neighbor, and himself for his own actions. That such a free man, set in a society of ordered liberty, could become materially well-off has inspired a dozen generations of immigrants, some of whom -- more and more of whom, it seems -- have come only for the plunder and not to become part of American society.

'More's the pity! I hope that Denmark, Argentina, and every other nation -- country -- can avoid such a sad end.

 

[John.St]

'More's the pity! I hope that Denmark, Argentina, and every other nation -- country -- can avoid such a sad end.

You ain't dead yet!

I feel reasonably confident in the US recovery, although it may take half a decade.