Is this the right time to buy a property in Argentina?

[rrptownley]

Why isn't there an MLS in this part of the world? Other than "SOM" of course which is not a real MLS.

Rather, what do you think would be the greatest obstacles for such a system? here , in Uruguay and Chile?

They do exist here but I don't hear much about them.

My guess is that agents here work small scale, very locally. They are reluctant to share their patch with anyone. There are hundreds of small, corner inmobiliarias and many more informal agents. Then there are Argentine business ethics and regulation promoting little trust between businesses.

Bigger inmobiliaria companies are opening up, but like ship or commodity broking I guess that it is still very much agent to agent rather than business to business.
Two big listing sites, enbuenosaires.com and zonaprop.com.ar have recently added the option to use their new MLS for your published property if you have a professional account.

It would be nice to see a completely transparent property market here where all prices and history are open information. A lot of owners wanting to sell their property right now don't realise the damage they do to to their sale by gunning for a (ridiculously) high asking price.

 

[cruizes]

Why isn't there an MLS in this part of the world? Other than "SOM" of course which is not a real MLS.

Rather, what do you think would be the greatest obstacles for such a system? here , in Uruguay and Chile?

Because nobody trusts anyone!

 

[Joe]

Commodity prices are what's fueling the boom, to bet on investment in Argentine real estate you need to believe they will stay sky high. You also have to believe locals will continue to have lots of US dollars when the inevitable devaluation of the peso happens after the election.

Personally, I'd wait. The only thing that's certain in Argentina is the cyclical busts.

I think jb5 is right here.

The time to buy is when you see blood in the streets - of course that could be years - hopefully never. But already the Australian RE is finally starting down - another commodity dependent country.

If China implodes as some believe, the commodity boom will end abruptly which would result in severe economic damage to Argentina.

Also many people have indicated prices are not in line with rents.

I might consider buying myself when and if another big crisis comes along - otherwise I will just rent. More freedom to renting - more mobility. I will only buy if it is a real bargain.

 

[Matt84]

Because nobody trusts anyone!

No, that's the reason why the economy in general is not kick ass

 

[AlfajorEfi]

that's indeed my plan: look around and decide where in BsArs to buy, make a offer and see if they bite. I'm not in a hurry, i can wait and go further.
And didn't know about the costs for the escritura. Is there also a tax for buying a house like we have here in Holland?
thanks for all ideas

yes, they invent all kinds of laws and ideas here and the public here goes with it without asking questions, so it works.
It's all a legal mafia...for example- the professional associations here are a big big mafia, and this is why-
Each professional such as architect, lawyer, notary, whatever, belong do an association here called "colegio de Fill in the blank". However, it is the client who pays those professional fees on top of what the professional charges.
Example:
You use an architect to build 100 sq meters house, so you pay him his fees for the drawings and signature and tramites to get the approval from the city, as well as the construction costs which they also mark up.
This is legit everywhere and pretty much makes sense.
Where this gets tricky is that the architects signature is not good enough! You also need a seal from the Colegio de architectos!
So after you pay the architect for those 100 meters plus his fees you additionally pay his mafia colegio per METER even though you have no benefit and are not a member of this association!this fee is usually quite high and for every signature you submit even if it's some renovation you get charges this.

Same goes with a lawyer. you pay legal fees and after that you get the stupid colegio de abogados fee.
Notarys don't fall behind and charge it as well. This is very stupid because to pay taxes when it's to the province and not to the city, and it's for AFIP you have to do it through a notary (escribano) and after you pay the taxes since they are doing a service which you have no choice but to use them, you also pay that stupid colegio fee!

You need to find out all these fees when you prepare to buy a property.
2 months ago I was about to buy an office space, I came with the deposit and signed after asking a million times everything, got the realtor to take a flat commission and not 6% , lowered the price by quite a bit, and then I saw a paragraph saying I have to use their escribano. I told the girl I specifically asked if I can use my own and she said no problem, and now she said I can't.
I was not willing to pay 30,000 pesos for this so I ended up not buying the office and took my deposit back. I had someone who would do it for me for 1000 USD.
What the hell, transferring a title is the same job whether the property costs 10,000 USD or a million! People here don't negotiate and accept what they are told so they just pay it! Idiots!

 

[perry]

I think Perry's point was that in every market there are "bargains" to be found....The price he quoted--$2,500 per square meter--for a well maintained property with lots of light situated in a desirable part of Palermo or Recoleta is certainly not overpriced and not that much more than prices from 2003-4.

On the other hand, I see lots of properties advertised for around 4k per square meter in these areas....easily double the prices of a few years ago....I would not buy a property priced at such a premium....

No, Argentina does not have US style real estate bubble but prices are affected by speculators looking for a dollar denominated investment....and with or without financing, prices have fluctuated in Buenos Aires, with ups and downs coming around every 7-10 years.

Its true that many properties are outrageously priced in Buenos Aires and there is no sense of proper pricing anymore for factors that include location, light, condition, the state of the building and history .

Too many realtors in Buenos Aires overvalue properties just to get the listing giving many sellers false expectations and in the meantime burning the property for sale .

There was a classic story of an expat that advertised a property at the starting price of US$ 300,000 on Rividavia and Junin in the zona of Balvanera .This property had only 90 metres covered and a terrace of 60 metres . The views were magnificient from this 24th floor . She wanted me to list this with Remax and I refused due to her non understanding of market values. In the end it took her over 2 years to sell it and she sold for just on US $ 200,000 what was the true market value in 2011 .

All my listings are market value and correctly priced . I do not have properties that are not in excellent conditions and there is not one that is over US $ 2500 per metre in any neighbourhood including Recoleta . Puerto Madero is dearer but I do not believe that it is worth the price per metre . Many of the new constructions there are of poor quality and with small rooms .

Recoleta and Palermo Nuevo are much more attractive neighbourhoods and are protected from their lack of supply.

The right time to buy is when you find a property that fullfills your expectations, and is priced correctly for market conditions.

I fully believe though that keeping US dolllars for the future is very risky and there is more risk of a devaluation of the dollar than of the property . A property title is safer than fiat currency!!

 

[oksanache]

I live in Nunez. And would not dream of living anywhere else, well, some parts of Belgrano, perhaps. This neighbourhood was not mentioned by Pericle, since he is giving advice for the tourists. I put my place for sale ($20,000 USD higher than 2 reputable realtors' companies appraisals) and had multiple offers to deal with. This is wehre argentine people buy, families or singles, couples as well. I have sold and bought numerous properties, all by SoloDueno. A lot of people are looking at this site daily, becuase they do not want to pay 4% commision on top of the legal fees and the sale price (while paying commission if you are selling property makes sense, since you are getting the money, paying about 6 - 9 grands after you had cleaned your bank to get this home is not appealing to anyone). Plus, you have to be VERY careful with real estate agents here. Including the ones who give you detailed survey answers on this board.
I pesonally do not see the prices drop, snce nothing is going to change after the elections, unfortunately. And people still have almost no alternative to the brick investment.

 

[Ashley]

I also believe that there is a considerable discrepancy between rental and purchase price of property currently.
We started looking at properties a few months ago and were really surprised at the poor quality/price ratio here compared to properties purchased by friends around 2004/2005 so we've decided to hold off for now. We found one PH property that the last owners had "recycled" by extending the ceilings (causing real damp issues as it was a ground floor property with an apartment above) and installing a mezzanine floor above the large living room (effectively creating two extra, very low-ceiling rooms). The original deed stated that the property was around 60m2 and the owners (and agent) were trying to push it as a 118m2 property because of the mezzanine floor. Of course, you would expect some value to be added for the extra space created but you can't re-wright a deed based on a cheap wooden platform! Needless to say, it is still for sale.
During our search, we also viewed a horrific property two blocks away from a villa (in Chacarita) that looked much like a villa PH itself and that was priced the same as much nicer (and safer) properties in the area!

 

[AlfajorEfi]

FYI in PIlar its about $1000 US per sq meter for a house as well as you get a big lot, with a back yard and parking for cars, could have a pool included, inside a gated community...
You can find even for less but the quality won't be as good or an older or smaller house.

 

[mariano-BCN]

Yes, I do have both nationalities (Dutch and Argentinean) so buying legally won't be a problem. But I'm wondering if you're indeed right assuming renting is cheaper than buying.
I'm considering living half the year in Argentina and seeing the prices of renting a flat makes me think I better buy something after a few months renting and when I know where in BsArs I want to live. Probably it will be Recoleta, Barrio Norte or another quality area easy to re-sell within 5 years.
By the way: it's absurd that prices of renting in BsArs are so high, nearly as high as in Amsterdam meanwhile the quality of public services, security etc are of course not equal, BsArs's public space is a mess and the administration of the city is crap.
thanks all for the interesting information