Just one more crisis

[Malvinas]

Yes, the problem with Argentina are the business laws. The reason why the government is so bad is because the people just don't care. It's not a nation of strivers. It's a nation of underachievers.

 

[sergio]

Sara, I don't think white, 'European looking' Argentines would be discriminated against in the US, I think they would lose their elite status. They might be considered 'exotic' by some but on the whole they would not be regarded as high class as they are in Argentina. Nobody would care about the surname, nobody would know that graduating from Northlands is supposed to make you a VIP. Having blond hair and blue eyes would be no big deal. But don't forget the vast majority of Argentines who are of mixed ethnicity, particularly those of part indigenous background - the dark complexioned porteros or low level workers. They are less likely to find a way out of Argentina but if they did, they would fit into the Latino category quite easily. Cheap domestic labor is an incentive for well-off Argentines to stay in Argentina but not private schools or health care. Anyone who can afford a Blue Cross policy in the US will get first world care and anyone who can afford to live in a good suburban neighborhood will have access to excellent free public schools which will be better than the best Argentine private schools. And of course there are countless top rank private schools if you can afford them.

 

[BA Barrio Busquador]

I watched this on youtube last night and it helped frame the ups and downs of the Argentinean economy from the 1970s. Interestingly, they talk about the mafiocracy quite a lot....?

You can watch the whole thing by selecting Part 2, Part 3 etc after the first one.

I found it very helpful as the whole Argentine history is a bit of a messy blur for me (although the themes seem fairly consistent...).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH6_i8zuffs

(It is in spanish but has english subtitles).

 

[A&A]

Anyone who can afford a Blue Cross policy in the US will get first world care.

This is the myth of America, not the reality. I had Blue Cross. The coverage was expensive U$ 450+ (went up 17% every year, regardless of my care or health status.) Having a child even with insurance cost U$7000 and did not count all the pre natal vitamins, the co-pays for the OBGYN visits, etc...that was just the hospital (and not a private room or anesthesiologist for C-section). Huge deductible relative to the amount of coverage, minimal dental or eye plan. Did not cover many of the things covered here and most often if you went to the doctor you saw a nurse practitioner, or DA, or something other than an MD unless it was urgent. And nobody came to your house, except maybe the EMT (or the coroner...but I wouldn't know about that ).

anyone who can afford to live in a good suburban neighborhood will have access to excellent free public schools which will be better than the best Argentine private schools.

Myth #2: My parents and many others have bought into this as the reason why they are paying ridiculous amounts in property taxes a year which might as well be tuition at a private school (and they don't have kids in school, so its like paying tuition 20 years after your kid graduates.) Sure the justification is "it keeps my property value high", but this is the myth.

And "excellent" is a stretch. I have yet to meet an 8 year old back home who learned a foreign language in school well enough to translate a movie plot to strangers, like I have had happen to me here when a friends nephew translated the Narnia movie for us. Not to mention the public school system in any major city (of BAs size) is absolute crap/war zone. (see, Facebook founder donation to Newark, NJ school system; see also; Washington DC schools superintendent under siege in her efforts to reform public schools; or new documentary "Waiting for Superman" ).

And of course there are countless top rank private schools if you can afford them

My friend pays $38K a year each for his two kids to go to private school in NYC. That does not factor in the dinners, donations, and events he had to go to just to get them in. Then the interview process for the kids, the testing...just to get in. They are 6 and 11. And these schools I am sure are decent, but they are not the very few rarefied boarding schools people think about when it comes to "prep school" (Philips Exeter, Andover, etc...)

There's your first world for you....

 

[marksoc]

Uff,not going to read all this,it looks like reading "La Nacion". I like my country as it is. I like that there are barriers to foreign investmentm, that will ALWAYS translate into money going OUT of the country. It is FOREIGN investment. It produces jobs, and also capital flight. No thank you, we did that already, it nearly destroyed the country.

To those that only contribute to the economy (again, Roger,is that you?) continue doing it so, the benefits of a highly educated and relatively cheap workforce are worth it.

And no,most of the last 60 years were not Peronism or collectivism or anything like that, in fact the opposite. From 1976 to 2001 you have neocon economic policies, with some years (1983-85) where something else was tried. The result: the destruction (intended) of the national industry. From 2002 onwards you have a kind of keynesian policy, but nothing very extreme, so don´t complain, this is still a very capitalist country,compared with France this is "pure free markets".

The only years with so-called "Peronist" policies are 1945-1955,and most of modern Argentina was built on those years. The story about Argentina being "rich" in 1910 is not exactly true:it was an agricultural country with some rich people,and a lot of poor. Peron created the middle class that despise him so much nowadays.

And corruption is an important problem, but nowhere near the destruction caused here by the IMF, european companies and US banks. Of course their intentions where only put into practice because of corrupt argentinian politicians, but corruption itself only count for little of all that was lost. Remember, (if I do correctly) we were paying 8 billion USD per year in interests of the foreign debt during the Mendez years. That is a LOT of money.

The country has good perspectives,China will dominate the world, Brazil will be the local super-power, the US is gone, Europe is in decadence. Only time will tell if we get out of being only the agro-industry provider or if we will become into "little Europe".

 

[marksoc]

And btw, a good motive to stay in Argentina is that people still act as human beings. They will (more or less) help you in the street, they will smile to you, the girls will blush when you tell them something nice, life is nice down there, especially out of the Buenos Aires "cheto" areas.

I am currently in France. They earn a lot of money, and they live very sheltered lives.I will never stay here. They are not very human, they are replicant individualists consumption machines.

 

[gouchobob]

Uff,not going to read all this,it looks like reading "La Nacion". I like my country as it is. I like that there are barriers to foreign investmentm, that will ALWAYS translate into money going OUT of the country. It is FOREIGN investment. It produces jobs, and also capital flight. No thank you, we did that already, it nearly destroyed the country.

To those that only contribute to the economy (again, Roger,is that you?) continue doing it so, the benefits of a highly educated and relatively cheap workforce are worth it.

And no,most of the last 60 years were not Peronism or collectivism or anything like that, in fact the opposite. From 1976 to 2001 you have neocon economic policies, with some years (1983-85) where something else was tried. The result: the destruction (intended) of the national industry. From 2002 onwards you have a kind of keynesian policy, but nothing very extreme, so don´t complain, this is still a very capitalist country,compared with France this is "pure free markets".

The only years with so-called "Peronist" policies are 1945-1955,and most of modern Argentina was built on those years. The story about Argentina being "rich" in 1910 is not exactly true:it was an agricultural country with some rich people,and a lot of poor. Peron created the middle class that despise him so much nowadays.

And corruption is an important problem, but nowhere near the destruction caused here by the IMF, european companies and US banks. Of course their intentions where only put into practice because of corrupt argentinian politicians, but corruption itself only count for little of all that was lost. Remember, (if I do correctly) we were paying 8 billion USD per year in interests of the foreign debt during the Mendez years. That is a LOT of money.

The country has good perspectives,China will dominate the world, Brazil will be the local super-power, the US is gone, Europe is in decadence. Only time will tell if we get out of being only the agro-industry provider or if we will become into "little Europe".

What repugnant thinking and intellectual snobbery. According to you Argentina doesn't need any investment or betterment, those poor people you see here don't want a better life or a job. Of course your not one of "those" people. You obviously are living a privileged life traveling to Europe reducing French culture to a silly single sentence, your trip probably paid for by Mom and Dad. What hypocrisy.

 

[SaraSara]

Remember, (if I do correctly) we were paying 8 billion USD per year in interests of the foreign debt during the Mendez years. That is a LOT of money.

This guy is a joke. He pontificates about the future of the US, China, Europe, and Brazil, but he can't even get Menem's name right...

That's what happens to people who view La Nacion and Clarin as something to wrap fish in - they stay ignorant.

 

[fedecc]

Actually Sara, saying Mendez instead of Menem is a common thing to do among those who hate him the most. Like, they hate him so much they cant even say or write his name, he is also refered sometimes as "el innombrable" and things like that. Its a silly thing to do, but its not that marksoc cant get the name right. Just a heads up.

 

[citygirl]

Ummm.. wow. Barriers to foreign investment and that's how it should be? News flash - the company here is a local company. It is registered. My employees are from Argentina. I pay taxes to the Argentine government. My problems have involved bringing currency into the country to invest in ARGENTINA.

But yes, that's me - just trying to take advantage of Argentina and flee with my bags of riches after a few years jajajajaja