La Cámpora In Argentina The Rise Of New Vanguard Generation

[glasgowjohn]

The desire to rig things may be there, but the smarts and finances to do so are questionable. La Cámpora lacks the petro-dollars to pass out that Chavismo could rely on. AeroCámpora is hemorrhaging money.

That would make sense if things were normal.

But they just print more notes to pay off whoever they want to pay off.

Really easy , especially if you own the printing company

 

[Gringoboy]

La Nacion couldn't resist. Not that I blame them.
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1582488-en-eeuu-dicen-que-la-campora-fundio-a-la-argentina

 

[Matiasba]

Although I support Kirchners economic policies, and a lot of other policies (such as: gay marriage, the ENORMOUS work they did with Human Rights, jugding genocides, etc), as I stood before in this forum, in many times, I do not like the way they manage from the political point of view.

I remember in one of Chavezs thread trying to explain you foreigners guys that Latin America is far different from US and Europe. Here we have the person above the institutions, we have personalismos, so a leader will always be, as a person before than the charge it occupies, above the public institutions. Its just different from your societies.
That said, in the paper posted, that I didnt read it all, just a look, a well known sociologa that I have read a lot before, explains perfectly my point of view:

"What does Kirchnerismo do? It mobilizes the working class and offers them a platform of democracy, equality, dignity. One has to recognize that. But because it is a movement the political leader is the government. And the government is the State. And the State is the Nation. Because of that, everything else, those who are outside, are crooks, gorillas, the oligarchy, who don’t want the people to be happy. Kirchner has been a great destroyer of the political party system because she has used all methods to destroy them, without mercy. In her ideology there is no concept of a balance that leads to negotiation"

This is just how I feel.


And, they are indeed authoritarian, as it was Peron. If you think, it is veeeeery difficult to not be authoritarian, because you have to lead with a lot of big problems, and if you have a society that have fallen over and over every 10 years, and a lot of people went into poverty, and also a lot of people won with those crisis, this is the main issue, the quid, a lot of people WON with these crisis, as it happens in every crisis capitalist system has, in fact, they provocated them, so, if you have this situation, this photo that if you dont change anything you will end up the same way every government finished since dictatorship, exploding the country and again a lot of people to the poverty, if you really have to change this, you have to interrupt the cycle of this rich people, you have to make them stop, you have to change this social (re)production they established post-dictatorship, in brief, you have to be (sometimes) authoritarian. You have to be stronger with taxes, you have to show the apearence of a big state, you have to be above them, above the corporate power, and you may have to be authoritarian to accomplish this submission of political economical powers to the State, after all, the State is the only way people have to be represented (you dont vote the president of Acindar or the president of Clarin).

This said, I cant tolerate La Campora, I found them demagogic, unstoppable morons that support CFK no matter what she does, they re her hooligans, as we call it, barrabravas, a gang that believes they are like kings and have all the power they want: its her army, and they act as armed forces. i dont think they are healthy to democracy or to politics in general, as I said before, they obbey to the person, not to a system or an institution. They use institutions, they use public institutions to do private personal favours, which is corruption, sadly they have ilimited power and that wont change. This is very sad. This fertilizes the "pais poco serio" speech the right always repeat.

 

[Joe]

Maximo, don't forget that Yogur Griego requires a synopsis (executive summary) at the beginning of your posts.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Historically, Peronism relies on buying votes, and they don't have the kind of money that Hugo had - in fact they're having to import petroleum to keep the country running. The biggest problem here is that the opposition is so fragmented that opposition to Peronism is an insufficient organizing principle.

Right, Peronism wins because they buy votes...

 

[Bajo_cero2]

I read the paper. I loved when assert that the Campora attacks independent media. Interesting concept. He is referring to what?

Well, seriously, on 2001 at the real cacerolazos, people claim for new politicians because the feeling was that all the politicians were corrupt and incompetent. Néstor K was unknown when he won and the Campora is this new generation of politicians that people claimed and Nestor proposed.

On 2005, on the other political side is founded the PRO with Macri and some former military involved in the last dictadura. One clarification, I welcome them to apply for government positions through democratic elections instead of attempting coups.

The only way things changes is if people change. New blood. Politicians like Carrio, Alfonsin are from the stone age and they already evidence how useless they are.

You might disagree with Kicillof ideas, but at least he developed new ideas instead of repeting like a parrot neo liberal dogmas who are wandering in its objectives. Just take a look at Italy, France, Greece, Spain.

It is no serious that the writer quotes a website but there are not a single quote of "Cuadernos de Militancia" where Néstor K describes his political project, the Campora included. When it was writen the Campora didn t exist yet. It is their bible and the author seems to do not even know that it exist.

I was a teacher at University, a paper that has no quotes of such important and elemental source cannot even approve as a homework at University. And I clarify, if he attempts to criticize the Campora, he lost a very rich source.

 

[Gringoboy]

I find it difficult to understand you bajo_cero, even when i try to pick through your well intentioned English.
In this case, new blood=bad blood.
Are you blind?
I seriously worry for those Argentines who can't or won't see what exactly is happening right under their noses.

 

[sleslie23]

You might disagree with Kicillof ideas, but at least he developed new ideas instead of repeting like a parrot neo liberal dogmas who are wandering in its objectives. Just take a look at Italy, France, Greece, Spain.

New ideas are not necessarily good ideas. Just because he isn't a "neo-liberal" doesn't mean he isn't a crook.

I have a question for you Bajo_Cero. Do you think Kicilof is doing a good job of handling the economy and do you see a positive future/outlook based on his policies?

 

[ajoknoblauch]

New ideas are not necessarily good ideas. Just because he isn't a "neo-liberal" doesn't mean he isn't a crook.

I have a question for you Bajo_Cero. Do you think Kicilof is doing a good job of handling the economy and do you see a positive future/outlook based on his policies?

Unlike many if not most of the top echelon, Kicillof does not appear to be a crook. Even if true, that doesn't mean he's the right person to dictate economic policy.

 

[Gringoboy]

He may not appear to be a crook, but he's dangerous nonetheless.
He has the unshaking confidence of the president, interprets her whacky policies into actual policies and he also believes he invented the wheel.