Lack Of Wheat?

Lobbying is legal in the US and illegal all around the world. If you legalize brives, sure, you are going to have less corruption...
You are saying lobbying and bribes are the same. The term bribe encompasses a lot more acts than just lobbying, and lobbying does not automatically equal a bribe. If you are suggesting that because lobbying is legal then you have less corruption then why are there other countries with a lower corruption index with illegal lobbying? Here is one organisations data when it comes to PUBLIC sector corruption. Every country has varying levels of corruption, but it would be ignorant to suggest Argentina and USA are on the same level. I don't think legalised lobbying is the sole reason why the USA is ranked 19 and Argentina is ranked 102. I should also point out lobbying is legal in countries other than the USA, I know in Australia and the UK its legal.

http://cpi.transpare...pi2012/results/
 
Lobbying is legal in the US and illegal all around the world. If you legalize brives, sure, you are going to have less corruption...

My dear Sir,

Lobbying is legal in the US primarily because it is a public activity - and no politician can make personal gains from said activity. Taking bribes is illegal because the politician profits personally from said activity and can be influenced away from doing what is in the best interest of the people that elected them. If you are comparing lobbying in the US with bribery then you are seriously mis-informed.

Believe it or not, politicians who are caught taking bribes in the US are put in jail. You might check out this article about one of our Vietnam Aces http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Cunningham. I know, it's shocking. Welcome to the 1st World.
 
Gs_Dirtboy, my interpretation of a legal concept -brive- is regarding the Convention Against Corruption of UN.
According with article 15, there is a brive when a public officer (like a politician) receives money for him, for another person or for an institution, it means, for the party during the campaign, and this money influence his behaviour.

So, it is not important how he spends the money as you assert, instead, it is important if his behaviour is influenced by this disinterested "donation" or not.

The scandal of Jack Abramoff showed the way lobby really works: politicians receive money and they give favors back.

For you seems to be a great institution because of publicity while for the rest of the world lobbying is a scandal because it is seen as corruption institutionalized.

However, it is better when there is corruption only in the high levels instead in all the levels, even very low, like it happens here.

But this off topic began because I asserted that there is always corruption, when the State is big, it happends mainly inside the State, when it is small, then you have mainly private corruption that has low profile and less public exposure until it is too late. Enron is a good example, oil companies, perhaps, another. Seems that they were the only benefit with the war and occupation of the oild reserves of the middle east and the unexplained rise in oil prices as they now have more reserves ¿?. As you know, there were no massive destruction weapons and to have more stock should make the price drop.

The Convention against the Corruption has a chapter regarding private corruption too.

Comming back to the topic, what happens with wheat and tomatoes is a good example of private corruption instead of bad policies of the government. This is my statement.

And in this point a clarification, there are many bad policies in the government, but this is not the case.
 
As much as there are huge levels of corruption in Argentina, I think BC is right about lobbying for the most part. Maybe it's technically not a bribe per se, but I know lobbying is to blame for the problems with healthcare. How are you going to change anything when Capitol Hill is full of people who got there through "campaign donations" from big pharma and insurance companies. Not only healthcare, there are lobbyists for pretty much anything. Legal doesn't mean ethical. Remember that slavery was legal for many years. And women didn't have the legal right to vote either. I think that while common corruption might be higher here, there's a very big problem with "corruption" back home that can't even be addressed because it's 100% legal. I don't think Mr. Rubilar is right about everything but he has a point here. And we all know he's a very capable and smart guy, we might not agree with his political views, but when he's right he's right.
 
Somewhereinba unwittingly states an undeniable truth when he points to the fact that "[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]Every country has varying levels of corruption, but it would be ignorant to suggest Argentina and USA are on the same level." [/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]Here politicians may have valijas full of tens of thousands of dollars, allusive vaults for storing loot and undeclared yachts, but the very fact that influence peddling is the legal standard of business in Washington puts the US in a league that CFK and her small time crooks can only dream of. Without delving into Cheney-Halliburton, the Keating Five, or any other such sordid scandals from the past (fully bipartisan in nature), just contemplate for one moment the current administration, filled with henhouse guarding foxes such as Jack Welch (now in charge of jobs?), Citibank's Jack Lew handling the budget or this endearing case of [/background]Elizabeth Fowler,

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/05/obamacare-fowler-lobbyist-industry1

...all of whom have used their rancid government performances to score corporate paydays in the tens of millions of dollars. All legal under (corruptísima) US law.

The reason why the US is more corrupt is precisely because of the corruption that is made legal there. In this case, Bajo is repeating a truism: where there is more power there is always more corruption.
 
Did supermarkets actually purchase wheat based products at the recently inflated prices, or are they simply applying an increase to the prices to deal with a perceived lack of future supply? If I was a supermarket I wouldn't even bother purchasing bread at the prices quoted because chances are people aren't going to buy it and you will end up with a lot of waste. I haven't seen anyone buying packaged bread in the supermarket I frequent.
 
Somewhereinba unwittingly states an undeniable truth when he points to the fact that "[background=rgb(252,252,252)]Every country has varying levels of corruption, but it would be ignorant to suggest Argentina and USA are on the same level." [/background]

[background=rgb(252,252,252)]Here politicians may have valijas full of tens of thousands of dollars, allusive vaults for storing loot and undeclared yachts, but the very fact that influence peddling is the legal standard of business in Washington puts the US in a league that CFK and her small time crooks can only dream of. Without delving into Cheney-Halliburton, the Keating Five, or any other such sordid scandals from the past (fully bipartisan in nature), just contemplate for one moment the current administration, filled with henhouse guarding foxes such as Jack Welch (now in charge of jobs?), Citibank's Jack Lew handling the budget or this endearing case of [/background]Elizabeth Fowler,

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/05/obamacare-fowler-lobbyist-industry1

...all of whom have used their rancid government performances to score corporate paydays in the tens of millions of dollars. All legal under (corruptísima) US law.

The reason why the US is more corrupt is precisely because of the corruption that is made legal there. In this case, Bajo is repeating a truism: where there is more power there is always more corruption.

If you think the US (or any of the our home countries) is more corrupt, you need to get out more and get involved more in Argentina. Corruption here is everywhere from the your Portero to your Police, to businessman & heads of banks to your politicians. It´s absolutely rottenly corrupt to the core.
 
Lobbying in the U.S. is a sort of legalized corruption in a way. Politicians are given campaign funds by big businesses so that they can get re-elected, and thereby buy the Senator/legislator's vote. This happens constantly. Unfortunately, let's says that Senator or legislator retires from office or doesn't get re-elected? What happens to his or her political war chest? You guessed it. He or she gets to keep it. So on principal, I'm not so far from accepting Bajo Cero's "legalized corruption theory". The lobby must go in U.S. politics or Democracy will become a sham, if it's already not that way. On the other hand, I think the corruption in the U.S. pales in comparison to the corruption here. The problem is that corruption in the U.S. has much more far-reaching effects on a lot more people than it does here. The government here robs billions and 40 people die in a flood due to lack of infrastructure because the money went into politicians pockets. The U.S. government decides to start a war so that some military businesses can make money, and 100,000 die. That's the difference. However, Argentine politicians will pretty much sell their vote for a paid vacation to Europe. In U.S. politics, there are repercussions and some consequences for corrupt behavior--a give and take. There is also a 1000 times more transparency than here. The Ks don't even know how to be corrupt in a discrete way--it's unbelievable.
 
Agree
Lobbying in the U.S. is a sort of legalized corruption in a way. Politicians are given campaign funds by big businesses so that they can get re-elected, and thereby buy the Senator/legislator's vote. This happens constantly. Unfortunately, let's says that Senator or legislator retires from office or doesn't get re-elected? What happens to his or her political war chest? You guessed it. He or she gets to keep it. So on principal, I'm not so far from accepting Bajo Cero's "legalized corruption theory". The lobby must go in U.S. politics or Democracy will become a sham, if it's already not that way. On the other hand, I think the corruption in the U.S. pales in comparison to the corruption here. The problem is that corruption in the U.S. has much more far-reaching effects on a lot more people than it does here. The government here robs billions and 40 people die in a flood due to lack of infrastructure because the money went into politicians pockets. The U.S. government decides to start a war so that some military businesses can make money, and 100,000 die. That's the difference. However, Argentine politicians will pretty much sell their vote for a paid vacation to Europe. In U.S. politics, there are repercussions and some consequences for corrupt behavior--a give and take. There is also a 1000 times more transparency than here. The Ks don't even know how to be corrupt in a discrete way--it's unbelievable.
Agreed. I find most of the time in a dispute the truth is somewhere in the middle, I find it difficult to accept the Government is not partly responsible for this situation. No doubt the wheat farmers are playing the game to benefit themselves, however the field they are playing the game on has been created by the Government. Situations like this will continue to happen because of the system that's been created, Moreno can threaten as much as he likes and keep nationalizing everything - it won't fix the root cause which starts in the mirror. Farmers will keep raising prices, inflation will keep going up and this will not change until a fundamental ideology shift takes place at Government level. The Governments hands are just as dirty as the wheat farmers.
 
Comming back to topic:
http://www.pagina12.com.ar/diario/economia/2-224758-2013-07-18.html

Afip discovers 300 tons undeclared and that 2 billion kilos were sold in black.
 
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