Legal Question - Landlord Issue

[nikad]

Yeah, thats the fun part. The issue is 100% in our unit, it was the main drain pipe in the bathroom which did not impact any other people in the building. She is saying that this pipe is the buildings responsibility, therefore not her issue. However she used to be one of the board members on the consorcio, and from what I understand she got into a huge fight with the buildings plumber who started the work, and brought in another plumber that the building uses to finish.

The reality is that it likely is the buildings responsibility, I wont see it in the expensas, as they are included in my rent which I pay to my landlord... she handles the expensas directly.

For me its not about the money... I'm just tired of dealing with all of the issues and her delays to do what is best for her and not consider the inconvenience to my family... the only way to get her attention is money, then things start happening. So basically I want to make sure she gets this done quicky, unlike all the other issues in the past... figure if I am entitled to a rent reduction for the time it takes her to make the repairs that she will move faster...

You can always call the building managers and get a copy of the expensas summary or ask one of your neighbors. If it is the building, there is not much you can do.

 

[Rich One]

The repair cost should show in the Consorcio General Expensas , Not in the Unit Expensas.

 

[garryl]

It seems that your landlord is not bad, trying hard to have the entire plumbing repaired, unfortunately, that's how repair is done and that's how long it will take in Argentina.
It was worse with my case, the old lady above refused to let people in her apt, where her toilet is leaking and caused my ceiling to be wet for 3 months, I could be elecetricuted.
If I were your landlord, I would give you a break/reduction, and not worrying about what law says. But if your landlord does not give you a break, move on, they are trying hard to get the issues resolved.
If people go by every small law, it's hard to live. Sometimes, common sense rules.

http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/tumblr_mvq68uPgbf1smkqovo1_500.gif

 

[Girino]

If it is consorcio issue, I don't see why she cares about getting the cheapest plumber possible - I would be more worried in keeping my tenant happy, but that's just me. Unfortunately you are having the full Argentinian attitudine "I don't give a damn, but give me the money anyway!"

We had a similar issue with heating plumbing, which needed to be completely redone for free (our apartment was under warranty, so our landlord didn't have to pay a thing). Of course, since it is not your landlord issue, they don't care to resolve the issue quickly or to the best possible way. They just care about keeping the money coming in.

We didn't pay for the month we had workers tearing down the apartment and no hot water, the landlord hold a grudge and it was just one of the many pieces of a bad relationship. We sought another apartment and moved elsewhere. what most landlord fail to remember is that we do live in those units, and we are paying for a service. We are not poor kids taken away from the street who should simply say "thanks" and shut up.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

That is not the law, you have rights, according to Ley de Alquileres art 1515 y 1523 Obligacion de Garantia

Si por causa de los trabajos que deba realizar el locador en cumplimiento de su obligación de garantía, se interrumpe el normal uso y goce o resultan incómodos para el inquilino, puede éste solicitar la cesación del arrendamiento o una disminución proporcional en el pago mientras duren las reparaciones. Si el locador no estuviese de acuerdo, podrá el locatario resolver el contrato. En cualquier supuesto, se requiere que las molestias sean mayores, quedando esto sujeto a apreciación judicial.

Well, difficult. The law of locaciones urbanas was replaced by the civil code. Those number of articles has nothing to do with the topic. What are you quoting?

The article 1201 of the new CC stablishes something similar.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Nikad, would your reference apply even if the interruption/work required is caused by a building issue, not a fault of the landlord? Her claim is that since the pipe that broke is the buildings responsibility that she should not be liable for any reductions. I am also trying to find out if this is true or not, no one in the consorcio has explained to me that this is truly the responsibility of the consorcio... either way, my landlord is the one (mis)managing things with the workers so even if the consorcio is responsible she has been involved greatly, which has lead to delays and people not showing up when they are supposed to...

My point to her was that I do not have access to all of the space that I paid for, why should I pay all of the rent...and if she is the one arranging work and creating delays that impact me she should be held accountable for that.... seems like two fair points to me.

The quote she made is wrong. However, art. 1201 of the new CC describes his fault, hus employed, other persons or caso fortuito. It is something you couln't predict or avoid (art. 1730).
Art. 1203 says that you don't have to pay if you cannot use it at all.

 

[ElQueso]

I would just let it drop.

I've never had a landlord here that gives a damn about their tenants or keeps up with their obligations; as someone else mentioned too many seem only to care about the money coming in every month, with no thought that not keeping their tenants happy means that money will continue. But then again, if you move out because they're not keeping you happy it's likely that you will be replaced with a tenant who doesn't care so much - possibly because they are so used to terrible landlords.

I moved into my apartment about a year and a half ago. It's a long story, there were a number of things that we had agreed upon that they would have fixed and they did little. I had the choice to not move in, or move in and accept things. Since then things have broken - what they did fix were very poorly done, just enough to look good, and so on. I've tried to get them to fix things and they say "sure" and then we never hear anything again, no matter how many times we've asked.

About 5 months ago, we found out that the owners (they are sisters who told us they inherited the department from their deceased mother) have been engaged in a legal battle for a number of years (well before we rented from them) with their estranged father and did not have clear ownership to the apartment. Which surprised us because 1) we told the sisters when we agreed to rent the place that we were not just going to be here for two years as moving is so expensive (not the moving costs themselves) and they were very happy that we wanted to be here long-term and 2) we did everything above-board, closed through a real estate office, paid the expensive commissions and all, and no one seemed to think the title was in dispute at that point. The sisters came over about three months ago and told us that they had been ordered by the judge to sell the apartment and split the money with their father. So we now have people coming to see the apartment every so often and interrupting our normal life, not to mention the fact that we will most likely need to leave at the end of our contract in April. Also not to mention that the father has come by here a number of times and yelled and screamed at our girls over the front door intercom asking what the hell we were doing in his apartment.

Every landlord I've ever had has only worried about getting their money and not doing much for the apartment. Maybe I've just had bad luck. If so, I know two other buddies who've had the same kind of luck. Including one who lived in his apartment for nearly a decade, paid the rent, expenses, ABL and everything, not late once, and was charged $45,000 pesos because they needed to repaint the apartment and replace the electric stove-top in the kitchen after he moved out. It's a 50 sm apartment (i.e., not much wall to paint) and the stove-top never worked from the moment he moved in (he rarely cooks, so he didn't worry about it, though he did inform them - and anyway, I recently bought a refrigerator, a freezer and a washing machine for just a couple thousand pesos more than what they charged him to replace the stove-top). They wouldn't come over to check the apartment when he left, and it was nearly three months later, after he had been trying to get back his $2000 USD deposit, that they came back with these charges - they'd already done the work they said and not only he couldn't have his deposit back, but he owed them more than twice that for the "repairs" they had to do on his apartment. I've been over to his apartment many times - it was spotless while he was living there and I would have moved into the apartment with nothing additional done (except for the stove-top) if I was a prospective tenant as I saw his apartment after he moved out and had it cleaned. Even if they did need to repaint, I don't think it was necessarily his responsibility because it was much less than normal wear and tear and there is no way that it cost nearly $30K pesos to paint anyway.

I end up just paying for things myself, for the most part, instead of getting into a long running battle and trying to make things "right". Maybe that's wrong, but I have enough aggravation in my life as it is. And maybe it's a bit of a cop-out, but I don't believe there's much justice to be had for people who are not poor here, and even for the poor I haven't seen much justice, as justice is defined by Argentina's own laws.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

If you ocupy it, then eviction is going to be super dificult .

They are crazy renting this way.

 

[Girino]

If you ocupy it, then eviction is going to be super dificult .

They are crazy renting this way.

Isn't the escribano supposed to check everything is in order before signing the rental contract? ElQueso is in a really really bad spot. He will have to face extra expenses because of another move. They are a big family, it's not peanut! And there is no law to defend him...

 

[mikic007]

Yes, this country works magnificently for criminals, much less for law abiding citizens. The result is, that even if you are good landlord, you will have to mostly deal with tenants shaped already by bad landlords. Beautiful circle...