Legal Question - Landlord Issue

[Bajo_cero2]

Isn't the escribano supposed to check everything is in order before signing the rental contract? ElQueso is in a really really bad spot. He will have to face extra expenses because of another move. They are a big family, it's not peanut! And there is no law to defend him...

Again, they cannot evict him. Stop paying, ignore the owner, do not colaborate to show the appartment.

 

[nikad]

Isn't the escribano supposed to check everything is in order before signing the rental contract? ElQueso is in a really really bad spot. He will have to face extra expenses because of another move. They are a big family, it's not peanut! And there is no law to defend him...

This is most likely a temp rental with no garantia. Eviction is VERY difficult and there are no escribanos involved.

 

[garryl]

This is most likely a temp rental with no garantia. Eviction is VERY difficult and there are no escribanos involved.

What happens if landlord throws all tenants things on the street ?
I have seen US police ask tenants to step outside and changed the lock following the court order. Later all the stuff were moved to the storage for 1 month for tenants to pick up.
If not, they are gone.
Most expats pay their rent on time, they do not want to cause trouble in a foreign country. Who knows who the landlord is ? Maybe mafia or drug dealers or gangs.

 

[nikad]

What happens if landlord throws all tenants things on the street ?
I have seen US police ask tenants to step outside and changed the lock following the court order. Later all the stuff were moved to the storage for 1 month for tenants to pick up.
If not, they are gone.
Most expats pay their rent on time, they do not want to cause trouble in a foreign country. Who knows who the landlord is ? Maybe mafia or drug dealers or gangs.

ok....

 

[ElQueso]

This is most likely a temp rental with no garantia. Eviction is VERY difficult and there are no escribanos involved.

For me, it's a two-year contract with garantia. Maybe you were talking about the OP?

And as Bajo mentioned, I could stay here and it would be very difficult for them to evict me - with minors in the household it could take years. But of course, I'd be screwing over the people whose garantia I used, as the courts would probably come after them to pressure me to leave. I can't do that.

As far as the landlord entering and throwing things in the street, I can't imagine the world of hurt that would come down on the landlord at that moment, or that scenario would already be happening in many places around the city and owners wouldn't have to ask for garantias - they could just ask for bigger deposits to take care of the damages that may occur in the apartment. I've heard about owners having a nightmare with renters in their apartment that won't pay and won't leave. I don't actually know anyone personally who this has happened to, but garantias are requirements for a reason.

Garryl, the kinds of rentals you're talking about exist, but they are not likely to be home to the expats you're talking about - cheap places outside the city exist and I know people who live in them, anywhere from villas (where gangsters or mafiosos own the building - I know a couple of people who live in the Retiro villa) to very humble abodes (one of my brothers-in-law lived in a one-room shack with his wife and their baby, that was tied on to the side of a lower-middle class house out in San Fernando, for example). I could see the owner throwing them out if they didn't pay. And I'm sure it happens in other places as well, but it's not the norm.

Indeed, the very fact that people would stay in an apartment and not pay rent because they can by law is the big reason for garantias, not damages (although damages do figure in that).

And Serafina, I thought the same thing as you about the title to the property when the owners are entering into a contract with a renter. We found our apartment via Remax, which is a big, expensive chain here in Argentina (and I'm familiar with them in the States). The absolute last thing I expected when contracting this apartment was that the title was disputed in court already. In fact, when the sisters came over to tell us the bad news, they brought the real estate agent from Remax who they worked with. I tried to ask her the same thing about escribanos and titles and she looked at me uncomfortably, shrugged her shoulders and I couldn't get anything more out of her. But then, she was the owners' real estate agent, not mine.

I would be completely and thoroughly ashamed to sit in my apartment and not pay the rent. Just because they are shameless enough to screw me over, I can't do the same. It was a verbal agreement that we wanted to stay and that they wanted us to. I signed a two-year lease. The contract says I have to let them show the apartment, within certain parameters, and they can't kick me out until my contract is up even if they sell it before my contract is up. But once it's up, they can not renew the contract and for me to stay would be shameless.

I abide by my word even if the owners don't. Two wrongs really don't make a right, they just both screw everyone up.

As far as the OP's situation, it sucks, but it's pretty common here from my experience and those of others I know, if indeed the owners are in the wrong. It's a shame, and part of living in Argentina. If you have the time and money and feel like it's something you should go after, look up a lawyer and pay him a fee to consult and tell you where you stand. Or, Nikad had posted some information in another thread some few weeks ago, talking about a non-judicial (I believe it was) group that helps renters with their rights. If the owner is in the wrong, it would be good to let them feel the wrath of their own laws, if the process, cost and time is something you can tolerate.

 

[nikad]

For me, it's a two-year contract with garantia. Maybe you were talking about the OP?

Yes, I was talking about the OP.

I think his landlord is trying to get things repaired and in good shape. I know it is inconvenient first hand. I was in the same situation about 7 months ago and still had 5 months in my contract. I really just couldn´t take it anymore, lost some money and moved. I re gained peace and harmony and I think this is what would be best for the OP. Consider moving and starting over. I would not break the law by overstaying and would not advice anybody to do so. I simply wanted to let OP know his choices.

Best of luck!

 

[Rich One]

For me, it's a two-year contract with garantia. Maybe you were talking about the OP?

And as Bajo mentioned, I could stay here and it would be very difficult for them to evict me - with minors in the household it could take years. But of course, I'd be screwing over the people whose garantia I used, as the courts would probably come after them to pressure me to leave. I can't do that.

As far as the landlord entering and throwing things in the street, I can't imagine the world of hurt that would come down on the landlord at that moment, or that scenario would already be happening in many places around the city and owners wouldn't have to ask for garantias - they could just ask for bigger deposits to take care of the damages that may occur in the apartment. I've heard about owners having a nightmare with renters in their apartment that won't pay and won't leave. I don't actually know anyone personally who this has happened to, but garantias are requirements for a reason.

Garryl, the kinds of rentals you're talking about exist, but they are not likely to be home to the expats you're talking about - cheap places outside the city exist and I know people who live in them, anywhere from villas (where gangsters or mafiosos own the building - I know a couple of people who live in the Retiro villa) to very humble abodes (one of my brothers-in-law lived in a one-room shack with his wife and their baby, that was tied on to the side of a lower-middle class house out in San Fernando, for example). I could see the owner throwing them out if they didn't pay. And I'm sure it happens in other places as well, but it's not the norm.

Indeed, the very fact that people would stay in an apartment and not pay rent because they can by law is the big reason for garantias, not damages (although damages do figure in that).

And Serafina, I thought the same thing as you about the title to the property when the owners are entering into a contract with a renter. We found our apartment via Remax, which is a big, expensive chain here in Argentina (and I'm familiar with them in the States). The absolute last thing I expected when contracting this apartment was that the title was disputed in court already. In fact, when the sisters came over to tell us the bad news, they brought the real estate agent from Remax who they worked with. I tried to ask her the same thing about escribanos and titles and she looked at me uncomfortably, shrugged her shoulders and I couldn't get anything more out of her. But then, she was the owners' real estate agent, not mine.

I would be completely and thoroughly ashamed to sit in my apartment and not pay the rent. Just because they are shameless enough to screw me over, I can't do the same. It was a verbal agreement that we wanted to stay and that they wanted us to. I signed a two-year lease. The contract says I have to let them show the apartment, within certain parameters, and they can't kick me out until my contract is up even if they sell it before my contract is up. But once it's up, they can not renew the contract and for me to stay would be shameless.

I abide by my word even if the owners don't. Two wrongs really don't make a right, they just both screw everyone up.

As far as the OP's situation, it sucks, but it's pretty common here from my experience and those of others I know, if indeed the owners are in the wrong. It's a shame, and part of living in Argentina. If you have the time and money and feel like it's something you should go after, look up a lawyer and pay him a fee to consult and tell you where you stand. Or, Nikad had posted some information in another thread some few weeks ago, talking about a non-judicial (I believe it was) group that helps renters with their rights. If the owner is in the wrong, it would be good to let them feel the wrath of their own laws, if the process, cost and time is something you can tolerate.

Union de Inquilinos provides legal advice for $500 pesos.

http://www.inquilinos.org.ar/contacto.html

A tenant in my building hasn't paid rent or Expensas in over a year the eviction process is slow, so he asked the owner for US$5000 to leave plus a Clean Bill showing his Satisfaction...?

 

[el_expatriado]

As someone who has been on both sides of this issue -- both a renter and a landlord -- I think you should just drop it. If the landlord is fulfilling his obligations to you and sending repair people then he is doing what he needs to do. Just be glad you have a landlord who fixes things.

Most landlords prefer to just leave the tenant alone and never repair anything. Repair people in Argentina are notoriously sketchy. Even if your landlord hired someone who charged 2-3 times as much they'd still probably not show up and do a bad job. So don't act out of bad faith on this one. It would be one thing if the guy refused to fix anything, but don't make his life even harder by trying to dock the rent. He's already losing a lot of money hiring all the repair people. If the apartment is old and has too many problems then just move out.

Saludos!