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Life in USA vs. Argentina
- Thread starter rickulivi
- Start date
igor said:Many things have a tendency to level themselves out after all. In business friendly places you have to face with high competition that makes it extremely difficult to make any money. In places where loans to buy an apartment are readily available and procedure is easy, real estate prices are higher. Everything is already included into the price.
Basically, you just resent that things in Argentina are not done in the same way as in the USA where you live. There is a russian proverb: "Nobody goes to another monastery with one's own charter" and I think it is fully applied here.
It is difficult to be an expat in any country. To be competitive you need to be better than locals. I doubt that any good oil-drilling engineer will have a problem finding job in Patagonia, but for many people being a native english speaker is about the only advantage and that determines the scope of their activities.
Everything I've said about Argentina is factually based. Denying reality is what gets people into trouble, not discussions of the facts.
I am not trying to compare Argentina with anywhere else. I am only try to point out the obvious shortcomings there that have prevented it from becoming a prosperous and successful nation.
If people there want their businesses to big successful and grow they should join this discussion on what needs to change there instead questioning the motives or ridiculing those that do.
As to your points:
"Many things have a tendency to level themselves out after all. In business friendly places you have to face with high competition that makes it extremely difficult to make any money."
I guess you are saying that government interference in the economy is not really an impediment. Obviously government interference there makes it harder to hire people, results in less economic activity. How can this be good for Argentina?
"In places where loans to buy an apartment are readily available and procedure is easy, real estate prices are higher."
Prices aren't necessarily higher or lower based on the availability of credit. What is true that not having mortgages or credit in places like Argentina makes it very difficult for the poor to have any chance of improving their situation. Lack of credit makes any sustained economic growth very difficult and makes opening or running a business very difficult.
What people have been experiencing in Argentina for the last 5 or 6 years are the good times. Let's see how people feel if things take a turn for the worse in the next couple of years. A link to a good article on the outlook for Latin America follows:
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/americas/story/793111.html
By the way Soulskier posted on thread encouraging people with succesful businesses to respond, what happened to it?
Stan, as a renter in the US paying your landlord's mortgage, I can't say I have high level of confidence in your views on real estate, prices, etc.
If there is no credit available, property prices are real, not based on speculation. Therefore, those prices will never be higher paying in cash then when the money is borrowed.
As both Steve and I have posted, you don't need a lot of start up money to create a business in Argentina.
Again, I respect your time in Argentina didn't work out for you and you left, but I can't grasp why you would spend so much time on this board, contributing only negative views of the country. Surely you have something more productive to do with your time?
If there is no credit available, property prices are real, not based on speculation. Therefore, those prices will never be higher paying in cash then when the money is borrowed.
As both Steve and I have posted, you don't need a lot of start up money to create a business in Argentina.
Again, I respect your time in Argentina didn't work out for you and you left, but I can't grasp why you would spend so much time on this board, contributing only negative views of the country. Surely you have something more productive to do with your time?
Stanexpat said:A link to a good article on the outlook for Latin America follows:
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/americas/story/793111.html
"Latin American GDP growth expected to slow"
Here we come again, battle of the links. This crisis is global. It is not particularly Argentina's problem. I can google a dozen of articles "USA/European GDP growth expected to slow" right away. Will it prove anything?
soulskier said:Stan, as a renter in the US paying your landlord's mortgage, I can't say I have high level of confidence in your views on real estate, prices, etc.
If there is no credit available, property prices are real, not based on speculation. Therefore, those prices will never be higher paying in cash then when the money is borrowed.
As both Steve and I have posted, you don't need a lot of start up money to create a business in Argentina.
Again, I respect your time in Argentina didn't work out for you and you left, but I can't grasp why you would spend so much time on this board, contributing only negative views of the country. Surely you have something more productive to do with your time?
Somehow I think I am wasting my breath on people who are just impervious to logic and reason.
As far as renting versus buying. I think you are out of touch with conditions today. It's far cheaper to rent than to buy. House prices are falling rapidly. I am waiting until I am reasonably certain prices are done falling, then I may buy if it makes sense. The guy I am renting from has to come up with another $700 a month above what I pay him to make the mortgage payment. I'm sure he doesn't see this as a great deal.
Your comment on prices being real when there is no credit involved is not correct. There have been many speculative bubbles where there was little or no credit available, check out the internet stock bubble from a few years ago. There have been real estate bubbles in the past where credit wasn't involved. Check out the Florida real estate boom and crash back in the 1920's.
I do have more productive things to do, but I'm not doing them now.
For what it's worth, Stan seems to me to have made valid points. Most Western expats in Argentina (or elsewhere in Latin America, for that matter) will not make as much money as they would at home. I, for one, don't lament that. One should choose where he lives on a wider basis, with income just a single consideration; and, on that wider basis, I find life in the Southern Cone delightful.
I've lived in Argentina on and off for over eight years and full time for over three. I have to say there is absolutely nothing this country has to offer over and above the United States or any other country for that matter. I have made friends and make the best of my life and have things here I truly enjoy but I fear the negatives by fat outweigh the positives sometimes. I guess I've always had a love hate relationship with this country but lately the lack of security and general disregard of basic courtesy have pushed me toward the negative side. Who wants to walk outside their front door to piles of dog poo on the sidewalk? Ultimately, although as I mentioned, there are lots of things I enjoy about living here, I wouldnt miss anything if I left. The only reason I stay in this country is to raise my daughter and I cant take her away.
Italia311, to say that American curture is "boring and dull" and follow it up with "it's a fact" is simply an ignorant and offensive statement. I also find this statement hugely hilarious comming from a person raised in Canada. Every country is diverse in it's culture and people. All Americans are not uncultured, boring fools nor are all Canadiand drunks. You may have had a bad experience where you were in the States but It's a huge and widely diversed country. Although I've decided not to live there, I still refrain from makeing sweeping generalizations that only serve to offend.
RWS said:For what it's worth, Stan seems to me to have made valid points. Most Western expats in Argentina (or elsewhere in Latin America, for that matter) will not make as much money as they would at home. I, for one, don't lament that. One should choose where he lives on a wider basis, with income just a single consideration; and, on that wider basis, I find life in the Southern Cone delightful.
RWS, no question about it, we are making less money here. But our overhead is much lower, mas o menos US$1,500 including food per month. If we eat out a lot, the price goes up some.
Stanexpat said:Somehow I think I am wasting my breath on people who are just impervious to logic and reason.
As far as renting versus buying. I think you are out of touch with conditions today. It's far cheaper to rent than to buy. House prices are falling rapidly. I am waiting until I am reasonably certain prices are done falling, then I may buy if it makes sense. The guy I am renting from has to come up with another $700 a month above what I pay him to make the mortgage payment. I'm sure he doesn't see this as a great deal.
Your comment on prices being real when there is no credit involved is not correct. There have been many speculative bubbles where there was little or no credit available, check out the internet stock bubble from a few years ago. There have been real estate bubbles in the past where credit wasn't involved. Check out the Florida real estate boom and crash back in the 1920's.
I do have more productive things to do, but I'm not doing them now.
Stan, I cordially invite you to come over to my house, sit on my couch and have some mate, an cerveza artensenal or vino tinto with me and I will show you my version of logic and reason.
With respect to credit vs real estate prices, 1920's was a long time ago. Talking about stock bubbles is like comparing manzanas to naranjas.
With respect to renting versus owning, we should start another thread on that. This one is about Life in the EEUU versus ARG
