Local Salary - bad idea?

[SaraSara]

yeah a lot of those are company cars -- that's what a lot of managers get as their company car, they aren't all personally owned.

Don't agree - I see many CR-Vs mid-day at the grocery stores, and picking up children at schools. In fact, most of them seem to be driven by women, and there are not that many women executives in Argentina.

Sorry to hear about your "circle of educated friends" complaining about their crappy jobs, but maybe those jobs are really not that crappy. Argentines love to complain about being unfairly treated, and not getting what they deserve. It's the national sport.

Now, about personal experiences: all counted, I have about sixty five second-nieces and nephews in their mid-thirties to mid-forties. They own their homes, have cars, go on vacation, and send their children to private schools. The oldest ones are now starting to buy vacation homes in Brazil or Argentina. These are not pampered kids from wealthy families - most of them worked their way through college.

One of them is a thirty-five year old who has an apartment, a weekend home in Tigre, a boat, and a single-engine plane. Started selling packaged cotton to hospitals while still in high school, and now has his own medical supply firm. His eldest brother is a bank branch manager in New York; he has a comfortable life, but is amazed at how much higher his kid brother's standard of living is.

My point is, there are opportunities in Argentina but there are more for entrepreneurs, not for company people.

 

[Johnno]

This is one of the most positive things I have read here - thank you much Whilst I am coming down initially to work as a teacher I have quite a few ideas (longer term) for businesses I would be interested in setting up/establishing down there in BA - its good to hear that people with a bit of drive and ambition (and maybe the right business plan and ideas) can still get ahead down there John.

 

[gouchobob]

This is one of the most positive things I have read here - thank you much Whilst I am coming down initially to work as a teacher I have quite a few ideas (longer term) for businesses I would be interested in setting up/establishing down there in BA - its good to hear that people with a bit of drive and ambition (and maybe the right business plan and ideas) can still get ahead down there John.

You can go anywhere and find people that are successful, sometimes under the most unfavorable of conditions. I think people that can be successful in Argentina would probably be successful anywhere. However the overall environment for business and investment in Argentina at the current time is poor. This is the direct result of a bad government with bad policies. The situation is resulting in little investment foreign or otherwise as the article below indicates.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...ls-investors-after-argentina-s-debt-swap.html

 

[SaraSara]

Gouchobob, it is true that investors shy away from Argentina, and rightly so.

But people born here don't have the luxury of choosing a country, and must find a way to make a living in Argentina. Emigrating is not an option for most of them, mostly for family reasons. So they create their own opportunities out of sheer need.

 

[fifs2]

Speaking from the experience of having lived and worked through the Irish Celtic tiger era, BsAs feels a lot like Dublin in the last decade of that bubble. For new entrepreneurs there still seems to be money to be made in property or setting up a truly innovative new business but the easy pickings are gone and any entrepreneur would have to come with a mentality to really work hard and face challenges they could never expect re red tape, taxes, labor law etc. The number one reason that any PYME fails is cash flow so come with cash, invest your profits and live like a pauper for afew years and you may well succeed as many of us have done in this wonderfully interesting and diverse marketplace.

 

[Alilou]

I think sarasara is right about there are a lot more opportunities for entrepreneurs. Also, the big international companies in my experience pay the least. My fiance is Argentine and has been working for in Buenos Aires for over 13 years. He at first worked for major companies (he started back in 1996 as a cadete for under 500 pesos), developed connections, and when a former boss of his started a new company... he joined on. ..He now earns about a salary comparable to the US for his field, computer programming. (about 12,000 ARG). One thing that is notable is that he receives more than half his salary under the table. This is very common since the taxes are so high here for companies. I have no idea what the average salary really is but it might be slightly skewed as a result of this. And also, I think about 12,000 is practically necessary for a one income family with children that live in the city and that hope to own their own home some day. I know that might be a controversial statement but I don't think we could do it for less...

 

[gouchobob]

Gouchobob, it is true that investors shy away from Argentina, and rightly so.

But people born here don't have the luxury of choosing a country, and must find a way to make a living in Argentina. Leaving is not an option for most of them, mostly for family reasons. So they create their own opportunities out of sheer need.

This is true and the people that are successful have to be very good and very savvy in how to do business locally. I think anybody from the outside who doesn't know the lay of land, how to deal with the problems, red tape, corruption, has a very small probability of being successful in business here. Of course many people have concluded that Argentina is not the place to be, like your nephew in New York, and have immigrated to greener pastures. It's too bad the current and most past governments going back to Peron have done little except make the situation worse over time.

 

[gouchobob]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I found an very interesting article on the current situation in Argentina.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/amb-nancy-e-soderberg/investors-cant-trust-arge_b_625477.html

 

[SaraSara]

Very lucid piece, and very depressing.

 

[Matt84]

From many of my "World Politics" rants, you might have already figured that I lean to the side of the chicken and the egg of small gov and individual freedom, entrepreneurship. But before you call me a Libertarian, I'm a Realist, meaning that I respect Reality: in this country government intervention is so pervasive that I believe private business is just a cover. Yes, there might be a COUPLE of clear cut success stories (like some awful ice cream franchise in the Conurbano that made millions in a couple of years), but the only way I see real money made here is through people that know people.

Living here is not cheap. Hiring labor here isn't cheap either when you add productivity and benefits to the equation. Working within the system for a local salary is not worth it unless you are following a career path. Working as a contractor, or privately, creating your own services to sell however can yield you a decent existence: it's a huge city in need of so many updates.

As for now I'm happy with the 3% compound interest rate I get from private collateralized loans. (PM)

There're still many opportunities here, even with an upcoming crisis. As it's common knowledge by now, you never want a serious crisis to go to waste.