Make Some Invest And Argentina And Get Citizenship?

[ben]

The five "conditions" from th ARCA website are about as accurate as the time line they provide for citizenship.

1.Fluent Spanish is NOT a requirement.

2. Asado is bar-be-que.. Argentina is better than the USA because Argentina ended slavery in 1840 without a civil war. Socialism is superior to Capitalism.

3. Complete nonsense.

4. Also complete nonsense

5, Almost complete nonsense. It is not necessary to have worked in Argentina or paid any income tax in Argentina. Social security income from the USA would be considered an "honest" means of living and in some cases, the monthly income level is too low to be taxed in either the USA or Argentina.

That being said, its virtually impossible not to pay some IVA tax in Argentina, though it's possible to pay less IVA by purchasing used goods (up to a certain limit) on venues like Mercado Libre and OLX.

While technically correct, this is misleading.

If I understand correctly, whether validly or not, the above rules are taken as a baseline and will be demanded of you - nonsense or not - if you are representing yourself.

The argument about having an honest way of living even while working in negro, for example, will work if you are represented by someone who can convince the judge of that, by being able to refer to relevant interpretation and precedent - not if you're on your own.

Which effectively means that unless your finances and taxes are ship-shape, you will not be able to obtain citizenship by yourself. You will need able legal representation who is conversant with this field.

For example, by bajo_cero, who - with all of my disdain for his political positions - appears to be a pro at what he does.

 

[steveinbsas]

While technically correct, this is misleading.

If I understand correctly, whether validly or not, the above rules are taken as a baseline and will be demanded of you - nonsense or not - if you are representing yourself.

The argument about having an honest way of living even while working in negro, for example, will work if you are represented by someone who can convince the judge of that, by being able to refer to relevant interpretation and precedent - not if you're on your own.

Which effectively means that unless your finances and taxes are ship-shape, you will not be able to obtain citizenship by yourself. You will need able legal representation who is conversant with this field.

For example, by bajo_cero, who - with all of my disdain for his political positions - appears to be a pro at what he does.

Yes, If you don't have DNI you will need a lawyer and, based on the list of the requirements I was given by the federal court in my jurisdiction, a licensed accountant must verify the income. Nothing on the list referred to working in Argentina or paying taxes.

A layer can provide legal representation but (if I understand correctly) only an accountant can verify/certify the income. if the monthly income is below the taxable threshold (now about $19,000 pesos for an individual) their shouldn't be any income tax to pay.

Yes Dr. Rubilar is a pro at getting citizenship for individuals without a DNI. he also gave me a stern scolding when I posted the same information ARCA has on it's website (I believe in 2010) after I copied and pasted it from another website offering "help" with the citizenship process.

If I remember correctly, Dr Rubliar actually said I was spreading disinformation and that the five year residency requirement (3 temporary and two permanent) had been discontinued seventeen(?) years earlier.

The requirement of Having lived in Argentina as a permanent resident for "most of the two years" is not correct. A foreigner with a DNI (and temporary residency) can initiate the citizenship process without a lawyer. As I previously indicated, only an accountant can verify the income

PS: Several expats who represented themselves in the citizenship process have posted in the forum that they did not speak the language fluently and weren't grilled much about the culture or politics of Argentina.

PS2::So everyone will know what Ben and I are referring to without leaving this page, here are the five requirements listed on page one:

1. You should speak fluent Spanish,
2. know some general Argentine culture and politics to discuss in an interview
3. have been living in Argentina most of the time during those previous 2 years as a permanent resident,
4. have produced income / worked in Argentina
5. have paid taxes in Argentina..

 

[Ceviche]

Steve in BA

You were actually the first one on the forum to start yr citizenship process..way back in 2010-11.

I assume...u got yr citizenship by now?

 

[ben]

Yes, If you don't have DNI you will need a lawyer and, based on the list of the requirements I was given by the federal court in my jurisdiction, a licensed accountant must verify the income. Nothing on the list referred to working in Argentina or paying taxes.

A layer can provide legal representation but (if I understand correctly) only an accountant can verify/certify the income. if the monthly income is below the taxable threshold (now about $19,000 pesos for an individual) their shouldn't be any income tax to pay.

Yes Dr. Rubilar is a pro at getting citizenship for individuals without a DNI. he also gave me a stern scolding when I posted the same information ARCA has on it's website (I believe in 2010) after I copied and pasted it from another website offering "help" with the citizenship process.

If I remember correctly, Dr Rubliar actually said I was spreading disinformation and that the five year residency requirement (3 temporary and two permanent) had been discontinued seventeen(?) years earlier.

The requirement of Having lived in Argentina as a permanent resident for "most of the two years" is not correct. A foreigner with a DNI (and temporary residency) can initiate the citizenship process without a lawyer. As I previously indicated, only an accountant can verify the income

PS: Several expats who represented themselves in the citizenship process have posted in the forum that they did not speak the language fluently and weren't grilled much about the culture or politics of Argentina.

PS2::So everyone will know what Ben and I are referring to without leaving this page, here are the five requirements listed on page one:

1. You should speak fluent Spanish,
2. know some general Argentine culture and politics to discuss in an interview
3. have been living in Argentina most of the time during those previous 2 years as a permanent resident,
4. have produced income / worked in Argentina
5. have paid taxes in Argentina..

Again, the point is that "not correct" is in itself not a correct term. As it concerns what will be demanded of you should you walk in without a lawyer, it is absolutely correct.

That you separately have the option to retain a lawyer (at considerable expense, for a competent one) and defeat some of the requisites, on the basis that they have no basis in law (and thus your "nonsense" comment is technically correct), does not change at all that if you don't retain said lawyer, at said expense, you will have to comply with these requisites - nonsense or not.

And being that many people, particularly newcomers, are reading this thread looking less for a law class than for a practical guide as to what they'll have to bring, this bears repeating. If you're not coming with a good and expensive lawyer, the ARCA info is largely correct (in terms of "what you can expect to be required to present", as opposed to "what the law says you must present").

A DNI is not enough - you will need to show that you are working legally and paying your taxes. It's that simple.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Ben, you were correct in 2010. However, nowadays half of the judges accept a) working under the table B ) just passport c) just the 2 years.

I opened a path that was used by many foreigners later.

The 3 + 2 years of legal residence requirement comes from derogated law 21.795 so, it cannot be enforced neither I can, as a lawyer, give legal advice using a derogated law because it is a) an infraction to the ethics law and b ) a crime.

However, seems that Macri the first with his new decree wants to go back to law 21.795 to avoid common people to acchieve citizenship by their own.

Seems that the decree is going to be enacted tomorrow.

Clarification: according to SC judges cannot declare that the decree is unconstitutional without a lawyer claiming it.