Malvinas Spat ( United Kindgom beating war drums )

[ElQueso]

BTW - I find it real hard to understand why the Argentines think the Falklands should be part of Argentina. No matter what happened in the past, for a long time it has been a UK territory. It has a UK population, not at all related to Argentina. It has been solidly a British possession since the early 1800s.

Argentina had only had the Falklands for a few decades, and before that it was contested between Spain, France and Britain. In fact, Britain was there before Argentina and even Spain - they tied the French as the first to land parties on the island.

In some ways, it would be bigger than giving Texas back to Mexico.

Texas declared independence from Mexico two years after Argentina lost the Falklands to the British (i.e., this all took place in the same relative time frame). In fact, Texas has a much bigger Mexican population (way, way, way bigger, by millions) than the Falklands have an Argentine, or even Latino, population.

Imagine if Mexico were to tell the US to give Texas back!

Alright, I admit that Texas is a lot closer to the US than the Falklands are to Argentina. But still...after awhile, it's time to give it up.

I would liken the Argentine's invasion of the Falklands to be something similar to the Japanese war in the Pacific (not scale at all, just some of the motivation). The Japanese figured the pacific islands were theirs because they were closer and they could take it. Of course, one non-similarity was that at least the Japanese figured at least some of the ancestors of those islands came from Japan. Argentina didn't even have that strong of a claim (in 1982). But in both cases, the inhabitants of those islands didn't want to be ruled by those who were attacking them. Thankfully the Argentine government was as good at running a war as it was at running its country...

 

[ElQueso]

There's a program on a local FM radio station (it's set in my car, can't remember which, but 87-something maybe?). Every Thursday at 6:00 pm they have a program on that talks about the "Malvinas" war. I have a dinner every Thursday night and I used to listen to this show on the way in to town every week.

They usually invite a guest who had something directly to do with the war to talk about his experiences. Once they invited a guy who had a website about the war, but was too young to have been involved (if he was even alive at the time).

I've heard more than a few guys talking about participating in the actual fighting. Guys who were aids to command staff and heard everything that was going on. It was such a clusterf___ that it really gets painful at times to listen to.

The music to the show is this heart-rendering, painful music lamenting the loss of the heroes in the "Malvinas" war. This seems to be still so close to many of the populace of Argentina. It seems very self-defeating overall, to me.

 

[Napoleon]

In fact, Texas has a much bigger Mexican population (way, way, way bigger, by millions) than the Falklands have an Argentine, or even Latino, population.

Imagine if Mexico were to tell the US to give Texas back!

I've discussed this before. Argentines are retarded if they think that the FALKLANDS (their original European name) are theirs.

At this point, the sheep farmers on the islands could probably successfully defend themselves.

 

[perry]

I believe the point is the Oil potentially 60 billion barrels this in anyones language is a huge economic benefit for the participating society. Why should the United Kingdom declare a 500 square-kilometer economic exclusion zone without approval from the United Nations and say the resources are mine. Yes have your islands and call them Falklands or any name you want but to claim the ocean so close to the land mass of Argentina seems completely unfair.

 

[malbec]

There was an Argentine population back in 1833, but they were all deported to the continent. If we deported all the islanders back to the UK (where their ancestors actually came from), there would be no links or whatsoever to the UK. So this is, in my opinion, a very weak argument.

Both governments have similar problems: no one wants to be the one losing face, the one remembered for giving the Malvinas away. I think this this why the KKs are being loud about that now. They won't get more votes for it, but they would get less if they wouldn't care.

And I think the Argentine population is way less willing to go to war as the British. They are proud of their Army, they like fighting wars. Just imagine a war initiated by the KKs...who would follow them not even their dog, not even Anibal Fernandez. In the UK it is different: Tony Blair dreams Sadam has some nuclear bombs in his pocket and wants to destroy Málaga with them and there you have, all the British population is behind him and some even go voluntarily to fight there.

In all cases there is need for negotiations. As Pericles stated above, this exclusion area is unfair and humilliating. There is no security related reason for still having it, it is just bullying.

 

[esllou]

Harping on about 1833 weakens the argentine case in my opinion. The world doesn't operate like that. It operates on self-determination.

How about we remove every Protestant whose ancestors were sent to Northern Ireland as part of the Cromwellian Plantations? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantations_of_Ireland) But no, not even the extreme factions of the IRA every seriously suggested that as a solution. They may have wanted the Brits out, but not sending home people who had been there for 3-400 years.

Self determination will also be the ultimate solution in Ulster. When the catholics finally overtake the protestants, they'll probably vote to join the Republic.

So, talking about turning the clock back 180 years is cloud cuckoo land and highly disingenious of the argentine government - and why they'll never get any significant support worldwide for their cause.

Of course, the reason the argentines support self determination in every other part of the world EXCEPT the falklands is that they know already the result of the referendum: 100% to stay with the current situation, so therefore, they pretend that the role of self-determination doesn't exist there.

 

[malbec]

they'll never get any significant support worldwide for their cause.

Well, the UN has been calling both countries to negotiate for years, something which is being ignored by the UK.

The world doesn't operate like that. It operates on self-determination.

As long as it serves their own interests. See Kosovo, Tibet, etc vs. South Ossetia, Transnistria, Abkhazia. 'The World' is sadly just a handfull of powerfull western Nations.

I like the English and get along well with them. But I think there is a need for negotiations. As I wrote above, I even don't care very much about the islands, but the surrounding sea which is called 'exclusion zone' by the British is truly unfair.

 

[ssr]

While the issue of how much ocean around the islands can be claimed by the UK needs to be worked out at the UN (or wherever things like that get settled), is there really still a dispute over who owns the islands themselves? The people are British, they want to be British, and the British won the damn war. Why do any Argentines still feel that they have a right to those islands?

 

[esllou]

Well, the UN has been calling both countries to negotiate for years, something which is being ignored by the UK.



As long as it serves their own interests. See Kosovo, Tibet, etc vs. South Ossetia, Transnistria, Abkhazia. 'The World' is sadly just a handfull of powerfull western Nations.

I like the English and get along well with them. But I think there is a need for negotiations. As I wrote above, I even don't care very much about the islands, but the surrounding sea which is called 'exclusion zone' by the British is truly unfair.

the UN wants the two parties to talk. The UN always wants parties to talk.

I agree that the "exclusion zone" needs to be discussed, but as far as I'm concerned, talking about the islands themselves after 180 years is not a sensible approach for the argentine govt. to take.

The other regions you mention should also be allowed to determine their own destinies but as you say, it's not always that simple.

 

[HotYogaTeacher]

This cracks me up. Giggling madly over hee...