Medical care Thoughts

[gouchobob]

Just going by experience, but my empoyer paid for my insurance - it was the industry standard thing to do and I've never met a professional person who works here (except freelancers) who don't receive insurance through their company.

I'd expect most people with private medical insurance to be receiving it through their employer.

You might well be right, I haven't seen any stats one way or the other. I know most private insurance in the states is employer provider. It may be many private employers provide it in Argentina as well. But I would guess higher percentage pay out of their pocket in Argentina than the states. Also a fairly low percentage of people are covered by private insurance in Argentina, probably indicative that most people still can't afford it here, although it seems like a bargain from someone from the states.

 

[citygirl]

Yes, most private insurance here is provided by employers,not purchased privately. Proving some type of private insurance is standard operating procedure for companies.

Regarding health care costs

1) You're talking about a vastly different population size. Roughly 41 MM in all of Argentina. The US has 310 MM. That's a lot less people using the system.

2) The healthcare system in the US is a nightmare of paperwork and processing. Think of all the people that are involved in a simple doctor's visit. You have the receptionist, the doctor, the doctor's billing group. Who then send it to your insurance company. Where a claims person reviews it, possibly another, then it gets sent to AP where yet another person must input the data into the system and then another person pays it, etc. Every one of those people adds cost to the system. The data generated and input into the system, the rules and regulations, the constant changes to operating procedures - it's all overwhelming (and impossible to unravel)

3) Salaries for doctor's are a pittance compared to what they are in the US. I believe (and I'll ask one of my friends to confirm) that his salary starting out after residency was something like 3500 pesos a month.

4) I also would guess, although I'm not sure, that doctor's here don't bear the heavy cost of malpractice insurance that they do in the US.

But again, for me, the biggest factor is simply the huge discrepancy in population size (and to that, the US has a rapidly aging population as well).

Also keep in mind that healthcare costs are going up dramatically here. So Argentina is not immune from the problems facing other places. That being said, I've had great experiences and do love the hybrid private/public model that is offered here.

 

[gouchobob]

Yes, most private insurance here is provided by employers,not purchased privately. Proving some type of private insurance is standard operating procedure for companies.

Regarding health care costs

1) You're talking about a vastly different population size. Roughly 41 MM in all of Argentina. The US has 310 MM. That's a lot less people using the system.

2) The healthcare system in the US is a nightmare of paperwork and processing. Think of all the people that are involved in a simple doctor's visit. You have the receptionist, the doctor, the doctor's billing group. Who then send it to your insurance company. Where a claims person reviews it, possibly another, then it gets sent to AP where yet another person must input the data into the system and then another person pays it, etc. Every one of those people adds cost to the system. The data generated and input into the system, the rules and regulations, the constant changes to operating procedures - it's all overwhelming (and impossible to unravel)

3) Salaries for doctor's are a pittance compared to what they are in the US. I believe (and I'll ask one of my friends to confirm) that his salary starting out after residency was something like 3500 pesos a month.

4) I also would guess, although I'm not sure, that doctor's here don't bear the heavy cost of malpractice insurance that they do in the US.

But again, for me, the biggest factor is simply the huge discrepancy in population size (and to that, the US has a rapidly aging population as well).

Also keep in mind that healthcare costs are going up dramatically here. So Argentina is not immune from the problems facing other places. That being said, I've had great experiences and do love the hybrid private/public model that is offered here.

I don't agree that health care is more expensive in the U.S. just because there are more people. More people if anything should result in economies of scale. Malpractice costs are another thing doctors in the U.S. like to point to as causing the high costs. A study has finally been done that debunks this, you can look at in the link below.

http://dartmed.dartmouth.edu/fall05/html/disc_myth.php

All the paperwork in the U.S. is certainly a contributor but don't you have a similar situation in Argentina with the various private providers? I think you hit the nail on the head on doctors pay, U.S. pay is probably 10x what people get in Argentina. The people in the U.S. are simply overpaid, in my opinion due to the deep pockets private insurance provides there.

A real situation showing the difference for me was the wife had a respiratory problem in the states, went to the doctor and got a prescription. Her co-pay was $30 but the doctor charged $150 and insurance paid the balance. The prescription was a very strong anti-biotic
and was not covered under her insurance, total cost for 10 pills $290. Total cost doctor $150 and drugs $290 equals $440. A month later she was in South America and decided to buy the same drug in case the problem cropped up again. The same drug there for 10 pills was $10, and no doctors visit was required to get the drug. In this case cost was $440 in the U.S. and $10 in South America.

 

[Ashley]

Generally, most people I know here get their obra social through their jobs so don't pay individual plans (unless they're freelance or extranjeros who aren't employed in Argentina).
I've always received incredibly thorough care here...a lot of preventative testing which I never would've been offered in the UK.
I think a lot of great doctors divide their time between public and private systems too...so although the public hospitals themselves are pretty shabby and disorganised, the care and attention you receive (from what I've heard) is pretty great!

 

[Johnny]

Healthcare in the states is outrageously expensive because too many healthcare professionals (mostly MDs) and too many corporations make way too much money. It is an almost unimaginable quagmire riddled through with fraud and waste. The powers that be in the healthcare biz have no intention of changing their ways. I've been in the healthcare business in the states for 30 years. The stories I could tell.

The only way to "fix" healthcare in the states is to melt it down and re-fuck it.

 

[texxaslonghorn]

This comment is much less academic and thought out than most others, but, fyi, my wife, daughter, and I were all covered through a private plan for around 300 pesos per month. This was a few years ago.

Our daughter was born in BsAs, so we used the insurance a lot and never had any bad experiences. Also, we hardly ever had to pay anything much over our monthly payment. Compared to the US, health care (including insurance) in Argentina is/was awesome.

 

[gouchobob]

Healthcare in the states is outrageously expensive because too many healthcare professionals (mostly MDs) and too many corporations make way too much money. It is an almost unimaginable quagmire riddled through with fraud and waste. The powers that be in the healthcare biz have no intention of changing their ways. I've been in the healthcare business in the states for 30 years. The stories I could tell.

The only way to "fix" healthcare in the states is to melt it down and re-fuck it.

It needs a big overhaul that's for sure, I have my own ideas but that's not the topic here. Argentina is reasonable because its priced based on what people can afford, not with what they get away with charging like in the states.

 

[cabrera]

It needs a big overhaul that's for sure, I have my own ideas but that's not the topic here. Argentina is reasonable because its priced based on what people can afford, not with what they get away with charging like in the states.

You have admitted that your country the USA is conning people and playing with their health their most precious asset. Argentina is much more civilised than your country becauses it cares about the person first not just their money and the chance to bankrupt them!!!!

 

[ptolemy]

You have admitted that your country the USA is conning people and playing with their health their most precious asset. Argentina is much more civilised than your country becauses it cares about the person first not just their money and the chance to bankrupt them!!!![/quote

..yes cabrera, we all know how much you hate the US. Why don't you just admit that and get it over with............................................................................................................

 

[A&A]

Well, some good thoughts here. In terms of the US: Yes, it is the bureacracy, I think I heard something like 80% of your healthcare bill is adminstration.

I think it is the size of the country, too. While (I think GauchoB) is right about "economies" of scale, City girl is also right in that any inefficiencies will be compounded. So all the flaws are just magnified. (like the way we deal with the 20% poor and the costs associated with their treatment.)

I have several family members who are doctors and I don't think it is the salaries. Yes, they do very well, but you are also forgetting that they spend 4 years in college (usually in a pre-med track), 4 years med school, 4 years of internship, then 3 to 4 years of a fellowship...and for most of that time after medschool they work insane hours for peanuts. So only by about the time they hit late 30's to early 40's do they start to make bigger money. As opposed to if you took someone that starts at a career out of college.

I want to know how the Government pays for the Free Hospitals? I feel that if the US even did that (and I am not even from the "save the world perspective") but rather it would just be more economically efficient instead of treating poor people at the emergency room after some catastrophic event or disease that could have been prevented.