My Visit To Buenos Aires

[nkotb]

Happy Lady: no, in most large cities in the US crime has gone down significantly in the last three decades. And New York is the poster child for that.
Yes, bad things can happen anywhere. But that's not a great insight, is it? The real question is: how has Buenos Aires managed to become less safe in the 21st century when most civilized cities are experiencing the opposite trend?

 

[Ries]

That real question is unanswerable.

My real question would be- how is it possible to live in Buenos Aires, and not be a victim of crime.

My answers, based on seven years of part time-
Dont wear an expensive watch.
Dont carry an expensive cell phone- use your desktop computer at home, and carry a cheap jailbroken phone- I just bought a samsung galaxy fame for seventy bucks in the USA, but there are flip phones for twenty bucks you can buy 3 or 4 of in the US, take em down, and if they get stolen, break out the next one.
Dont carry a laptop around- again- use the computer at home.

Be aware of where the Villas are, and stay out of Boca, and the area around Retiro after dark.

I never carry very much cash, and usually only carry credit cards when I am specifically going to use one.

So- if i get moto-chorroed- I got nothing much to lose.

Drive by shootings, which were common in south central, are very rare.
Home invasions seldom happen in doorman apartment buildings.

Neighborhood does matter.

 

[ajoknoblauch]

Happy Lady: no, in most large cities in the US crime has gone down significantly in the last three decades. And New York is the poster child for that.
Yes, bad things can happen anywhere. But that's not a great insight, is it? The real question is: how has Buenos Aires managed to become less safe in the 21st century when most civilized cities are experiencing the opposite trend?

It's true that crime has declined in large US cities, but I'm not convinced it's increased dramatically in Buenos Aires. I am convinced, though, that Argentina has the least professional police of almost any country in my experience, with the possible exception of Mexico.

 

[EricBluegrassFiddle]

That real question is unanswerable.

My real question would be- how is it possible to live in Buenos Aires, and not be a victim of crime.

My answers, based on seven years of part time-
Dont wear an expensive watch.
Dont carry an expensive cell phone- use your desktop computer at home, and carry a cheap jailbroken phone- I just bought a samsung galaxy fame for seventy bucks in the USA, but there are flip phones for twenty bucks you can buy 3 or 4 of in the US, take em down, and if they get stolen, break out the next one.
Dont carry a laptop around- again- use the computer at home.

Be aware of where the Villas are, and stay out of Boca, and the area around Retiro after dark.

I never carry very much cash, and usually only carry credit cards when I am specifically going to use one.

So- if i get moto-chorroed- I got nothing much to lose.

Drive by shootings, which were common in south central, are very rare.
Home invasions seldom happen in doorman apartment buildings.

Neighborhood does matter.

Actually it's good to have a little cash or something on you just in case. I've always been told that here by Argentines....

 

[EricBluegrassFiddle]

Happy Lady: no, in most large cities in the US crime has gone down significantly in the last three decades. And New York is the poster child for that.
Yes, bad things can happen anywhere. But that's not a great insight, is it? The real question is: how has Buenos Aires managed to become less safe in the 21st century when most civilized cities are experiencing the opposite trend?

Theres a new drug cartel called "Los Monos" (?) thats been beginning to make in roads into this province. I think they are tied to Brazilian, Colombian and Bolivian drug cartels as well. I've read that a big name "fiscal" has been investigating and that this cartel even has high ranking members of the prov police paid off and Involved. I will see if I can find the article about this, they think is at least partly involved in the rise of crime.

But if this guy isnt careful he may get "Nisman'd"

Also my wife, who has been an educator here for 20 years in the poorest schools in low class neighborhoods said the amount of high risk kids is WAY up compared to when she first started, drugs, alcohol, domestic abuse, abandonment, daily violence in the neighborhoods where they live. Most of these kids already have parents, brothers, uncles cousins who are thieves in and out of jail regularly. The things they describe to my wife are frightening and sad. My wife is so burned out, depressed and jaded by it all, she's ready for a change of career. She tells me: These kids are part of Argentinas future, and its getting worst and theres more of them all the time" She tells me she feels frustrated and without hope that no matter what they try to do, they seem to accomplish nothing and see more of these kids all the time.

Its behinning to affect her negatively she sees so much poverty and kds and you g people with issues. She told me, theres SO many schools and neighborhoods and kds like this and she said the oressure of a lufe of crime is too great for most of them....thers not much we can do she said..


Paco is really bad, as is cocaine

 

[Ries]

A little cash, sure- a few hundred pesos, even.
But I know lots of guys in the USA who routinely carry hundreds, even thousands of dollars. My step father in law, now no longer with us, would always have a roll of cash in his pocket.

My point remains- there are simple things you can do to minimize crimes of opportunity.
Random pickpockets and purse snatches are the main crimes in the "good" neighborhoods- just as they are in other big cities.
My wife, or I, have been the subjects of attempted, or successful, pickpockets and purse snatches in Madrid, Rome, Los Angeles, Sri Lanka, Thailand, and Indonesia, and, of course, it happens in BA too- but no more than in Napoli.

What you dont have in Buenos Aires is the incredible number of people in the USA who routinely shoot their ex wives, children, politicans, abortion providers, black unarmed teenagers, bosses, teachers, and fellow students.

I feel safer in Buenos Aires than I would in the similar downtown areas of many US cities.

 

[EricBluegrassFiddle]

A little cash, sure- a few hundred pesos, even.
But I know lots of guys in the USA who routinely carry hundreds, even thousands of dollars. My step father in law, now no longer with us, would always have a roll of cash in his pocket.

My point remains- there are simple things you can do to minimize crimes of opportunity.
Random pickpockets and purse snatches are the main crimes in the "good" neighborhoods- just as they are in other big cities.
My wife, or I, have been the subjects of attempted, or successful, pickpockets and purse snatches in Madrid, Rome, Los Angeles, Sri Lanka, Thailand, and Indonesia, and, of course, it happens in BA too- but no more than in Napoli.

What you dont have in Buenos Aires is the incredible number of people in the USA who routinely shoot their ex wives, children, politicans, abortion providers, black unarmed teenagers, bosses, teachers, and fellow students.

I feel safer in Buenos Aires than I would in the similar downtown areas of many US cities.

I live in a good neighborhood by working class argentine standards. I can assure you, we don't have a crime problem with pickpockets here...it's actually the least of our worries quite honestly.

Here it's street muggings called "Robos de Pirana" ( as in the fish pirana ) where they decend upon you in groups of about 3 or 4 they jump you, holding you down and beating your face in while another guy pilfers through everything on you. It happens quick, within seconds.. I haven't heard of any of these in my neighborhood as of late.

Next are carjackings...these are all too common....we've already had one neighbor who's had a car stolen ( stolen at like 1:30 in the afternoon ) a few mopeds have been stolen as well around me ( motorcycles are stolen alot here ) and there have been carjacking attempts on my block as well in the past 2 1/2 years we've been here. Also "motochorros" or motorcycle theives. Usually two bikes, two guys per bike. My wife had a problem with this last year...I already mentioned it on another thread.

Finally, home invasions.......these are the most fearful to me..you DONT want to be home here during a robbery like this. These guys always carry pistols 9MM or .35 calibres ( common street guns here ) They nail you as your opening your front gate, or door..or as your leaving, you go out lock your door and there's a couple of guys that puts a gun on you obliging you to let them in. Or, they nail you as your putting your car in the garage or locking up your car, usually when your distracted. I've been told by my brother in law that these are targeted robberies and they usually do surveillance on your beforehand before they strike. He told me alot of thieves work with these guys, you've seen them, thay pass by your house leaving little fliers and stuff on your front door or mailboxes, discounts from pizzerias and stuff. Also these people that come buy asking for clothes or selling crap...he says you have to be careful with some of these folks because some of them also are working with groups of thieves going around snooping targets...the thieves then pay them for their info. Finally, they also will climb up on walls and rooftops "trepando" ( crossing from rooftop to rooftop ) looking for small bathroom windows or attic windows, weaknesses where they get in...this happened to us a few times in our old apartment where we lived when we were first married. Usually, they'll just wait patiently until you return home and then jump you, tie you up and rob you.

Both of my neighbors on either side of me have been robbed twice, before we moved in. we were robbed only once ( thank god ) but it cost $10,000 pesos in repairs and extra security. Also just before Easter another nieghbor about half a block as well ( that I know of ) when they went out to lunch. I'never saw a thing and I can SEE their front door from my living room window...I found out when they came home and I saw cops everywhere. They pried open their front garage. An older couple about a block down my street towards the main avenue was very violently burglarized about 6 months or so before we moved in. The older man was beaten so bad he was blinded in one eye and can't walk without assistance. He and his wife are like 85 years old.

My 2 neighbors and one of the others around me are talking about getting a block alarm system to where if one house is burglarized, all the alarms on every house on the block go off. The only thing is it is expensive. Even so we have a guy who drives around at night in an old car and during the day with a little orange light on top, he supposedly is like a neighborhood watch guy and a few of my neighbors or people in our barrio I guess pay this guy to drive around and check up on things. Alot of neighborhoods here where I live have these guys.


Pickpockets target the downtown areas...like "Calle Florida" in Buenos Aires or the Ferria in San Telmo, barrio Retiro by the bus station etc.......they prey on the tourists mainly because they are easy low risk targets. The average argentine knows better....not to say that "Pungas" ( pickpocketing ) doesn't happen, but these are "las ratas" ( rats ) or the small time thieves and punks that do this kind of stuff. They rarely carry guns unless it be a knife...sometimes they work on city buses or at city bus stops also....It's the guys that do the car jackings and home invasions and are the "motochorros" that you have to be really careful of.


Here if you live in a bottom floor home or 2nd or even at least 3rd story house or apartment, you need a good alarm system ( check it regularly ) and I also recommed "rejas" or iron bars as well as an added deterent. This makes your home a less appealing target. I also advocate keeping a fairly low profile, learning the language, assimilate as much as possible to the local culture and way of doing things. Also, argentines have never let me down, they always have given me good advice on everything here ( including my wife )

I'm not saying live in fear or be paranoid, but if one is going to be living here, it's goo to have some idea of the types of crime and the tactics they use and learn from the experiences of others, such as myself so one will know how to take precautions to protect themselves and their personal property.

 

[EricBluegrassFiddle]

Eric, i am sorry for all the bad things that have happened to your family and friends. Certainly, these crimes are traumatic. This happens everywhere in the world, in my opinion.
We have been robbed in Seville, Spain and Rome, Italy and in NYC, where we lived for 4 years. In NYC., our car was stolen from a parking lot with a high fence and a 24 hr. guard and also, a special card to open the gate. These are crimes that occur in large cities in most of the world.
I do agree that there is more crime now than 23 years ago when we moved here. Has the same not occurred in most large cities of the world-I don{t have numbers to prove this, just a supposition.
Our experience of living in B.A. has been positive. We stayed because we love the city and are happy here.
Do you feel that living in a large city in the US. is safer- or this just because so many bad things have happened to you, your family, and neighbors-)) my question mark is not working, just leaves a space=
We are street smart, have traveled a lot, and always try to exert care. This has not turned us against our life here. We love Buenos Aires. We feel that the good here out weighs the bad. Perhaps we are just Pollyanish..
.

Sorry I didn't respond to your questions...

I was born in a small Illinois town in the lower midwest near Missouri. I never experienced any serious crime of any kind growing up, except when we moved to Florida, but even then it was only a few things taken out of my car when it was unlocked, and a few things pilfered from our garage. Nothing like what I've experienced here and also most of my friends. I'm not used to this kind of lifestyle at all, until I came here to live...

So, based on that, I couldn't tell you about a major US city because I've always lived in either a small town or a distant suburb....I've never been to NYC or lived in Chicago ( visited once ) for example

 

[mmoon]

We've lived in BA off and on since early 2002 and it is definitely much more dangerous now than it was even back when the country was falling apart financially (which is pretty much always, but 2002 was the worst so far). I'm not sure how anyone could argue otherwise.

We've recently had friends in their gated home in Olivos be attacked by armed gunmen and locked in their bathroom for several hours while their house was ransacked. Luckily they were not seriously hurt, but they lost every possession of value in their house. They had an alarm system, a dog, and a neighborhood watchman (maybe an inside job), not to mention huge walls and a locked fence out front. Two families we know (one Argentines, one expats) who lived in high-rises with 24-hour doormen have moved out of BA in the last year or so, one living in Palermo and one in Plaza San Martin.

I too hope that I will always be up for new adventures, especially after I retire! But, you have to choose your battles and trust that your new country has decent stability and security. It's different to move to BA when you are young, or to live there part time. We come and go because of our jobs, but for those who decide to give up everything in their home country and relocate to BA permanently, especially on a retirement income, it just seems like a huge gamble.

 

[EricBluegrassFiddle]

We've lived in BA off and on since early 2002 and it is definitely much more dangerous now than it was even back when the country was falling apart financially (which is pretty much always, but 2002 was the worst so far). I'm not sure how anyone could argue otherwise.

We've recently had friends in their gated home in Olivos be attacked by armed gunmen and locked in their bathroom for several hours while their house was ransacked. Luckily they were not seriously hurt, but they lost every possession of value in their house. They had an alarm system, a dog, and a neighborhood watchman (maybe an inside job), not to mention huge walls and a locked fence out front. Two families we know (one Argentines, one expats) who lived in high-rises with 24-hour doormen have moved out of BA in the last year or so, one living in Palermo and one in Plaza San Martin.

I too hope that I will always be up for new adventures, especially after I retire! But, you have to choose your battles and trust that your new country has decent stability and security. It's different to move to BA when you are young, or to live there part time. We come and go because of our jobs, but for those who decide to give up everything in their home country and relocate to BA permanently, especially on a retirement income, it just seems like a huge gamble.

I'm really really sorry to hear that ....it's extremely tramautizing when this happens, we were burglarized also and luckily were not home... My friend who was shot 3X in the home invasion his family was in has REALLY changed since the shooting and robbery... he actually thought he was going to die...he told me that a few times..

Our other set of friends, also argentine/american expats had been here for 20 years and were running a christian charity. We believe that was an "inside job" ( as I believe what happened in your friends case ) and they found out a few policeman from the local comisaria were involved. They had little kids aged 5 and 8 that witnessed everything and were pretty tramautized over it. They've since returned to the US and said they won't be coming back to live.. In high income neighborhoods with heavy security like that it usually is an inside job. It's heartbreaking because he loves argentina and the people here, but they felt it was no longer safe enough for them to continue. I can only think of just a very select few of our friends and people that we know here who "haven't" experienced any kind of crime yet.

I think it's cool here if your a young, single person but you know getting married and having kids changes the equation dramatically, at least in our case.

It was sketchy even when I got here, you had to be careful always but lately for my wife and I it's like getting out of control here, it's just too much concern for us and we are getting worn out with having to be hyper vigilant all the time and living behind a maze of bars and alarms with like 16 keys....after a while it startes to get old.