national anthem in schools

NYKate

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I believe that some nuts in California wanted to get rid of saying the Pledge of Allegiance in school because if references God. Honestly I agree that it is important to teach children to have pride in their country and to learn the history behind the national anthems and Pledge of Allegiance.
 

sergio

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Napoleon said:
The correct ruling... at least according to the US Constitution.

I wasn´t suggesting that the US return to prayer in school however matters of religion have been interpreted differently over the years. There are scholars who dispute that the modern understanding of separation of church and state is what the Constitution calls for. NO ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION are the actual words, as I recall. In the context of the 18th century that would have meant that the Church of England - or any other church - could NOT be the official church, as it still is in the UK. Completely separating religion from public life was not necessarily the intention of the founders but a latter day interpretation of an evolving constitution.
 

HowardinBA

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seeker said:
Why Howard, is it a good thing that children sing the national anthem in school? I'm British, and can't recall ever singing it, or pledging aligance, or anything else similar, and, sincerely think this is right. You can sing the national anthem every 10 minutes if you wish, but you're an adult. I think kids should be taught the words, and the tune, but that's about as far as it should go....
Hi Seeker.I just think it,s very important to instil national pride in our youngsters...we,re still trying to make St,George,s day a bank holiday!!!!:eek:
 

Napoleon

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NYKate said:
I believe that some nuts in California wanted to get rid of saying the Pledge of Allegiance in school because if references God. Honestly I agree that it is important to teach children to have pride in their country and to learn the history behind the national anthems and Pledge of Allegiance.
The thing is that the "one nation, UNDER GOD, with..." part was added in like the '50s or so during the Red Scare/Cold War. To show that the US wasn't a bunch of communists, they added the "Under God" part. Considering we are NOT a nation built "Under God", both that part and the "In God We Trust" on all of our coins is both ridiculous and unconstitutional.

So it is THAT issue that the parent in California had problems with. Not that blind nationalism is a bad thing. ;)

Speaking of "blind nationalism", what do people think about the Falklands?
 

jp

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Why on earth should we instill national pride? Why is nationalism a good thing?

If people feel proud of their country, fair play, but indoctrinating them at an early age just sounds a bit creepy.
 

sergio

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Napoleon said:
The thing is that the "one nation, UNDER GOD, with..." part was added in like the '50s or so during the Red Scare/Cold War. To show that the US wasn't a bunch of communists, they added the "Under God" part. Considering we are NOT a nation built "Under God", both that part and the "In God We Trust" on all of our coins is both ridiculous and unconstitutional.

So it is THAT issue that the parent in California had problems with. Not that blind nationalism is a bad thing. ;)

See my previous post, Napoleon. The Constitution of the US prohibits the establishment of religion, as in a national Church such as the Church of England in the UK (still the established religion of the nation). Coins proclaiming trust in God or a Pledge mentioning God are not unconstitutional. The evolution of church / state relations has been gradually away from recognition of Christianity as the only religion in favor of a more inclusive recognition of God (first Judaism was acknowledged, hence the ´Juedo-Christian´ term and more recently Islam. ) Congress opens with prayers, the name of God is frequently invoked by politicians, the US Armed Forces have chaplains. We do not tax religious institutions. These practices reflect the beliefs of most Americans who profess belief in a deity. The nation was founded on principles of religious freedom and tolerance but not on atheism.
 

HowardinBA

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quite the opposite JP.I am surprised you think that way.Of course we all have differing opinions,but for me,my opinion,it,s very important
 

sergio

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jp said:
Why on earth should we instill national pride? Why is nationalism a good thing?

If people feel proud of their country, fair play, but indoctrinating them at an early age just sounds a bit creepy.

Instilling pride does not have to be indoctrination. I know that as a result of my experience living in Argentina and two other continents I have a pretty deep understanding of what the world is like. I appreciate the freedom, opportunity and many virtues of the US all the more and I try to explain to Americans when I go back that they should appreciate their country because most of the world is far worse off. If more Americans could see the reality of the world they would value their own nation more, would protect it by voting and by being active in their communities. Indifference is the greatest threat to the American nation. Going back to my comment that pride does not mean indoctrination, political science / history teachers in the US can point out to their students how unpatriotic it is for American companies to outsource work when there are American workers who need jobs. We need to look at the term ´pride´ and ´patriotism´and examine their meanings. Patriotism, to me, means defending one´s nation from harm. A lot of the harm to the US is coming from within but Americans are being blinded by the rantings of people like Rush Limbaugh who focus on the trivial. capturing the anger of the American middle class who can not identify the real threat.
 

jp

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If you explained to Americans that their standard of living is based on exploitation of foreign labour markets, would that make them more patriotic? If people knew that their comfortable way of life necessitated immense suffering elsewhere, would that make them feel grateful, or disgusted? Not singling out the US, most western nations are in a similar position.

I can understand teaching kids to be grateful for the many benefits their country offers them, but not pride. Truth be told, the circumstances surrounding many of the benefits are nothing to be proud of.

Maybe this comes down to differing interpretations of what "national pride" represents.
 
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