New Entry "Reciprocity" Fee for US, Canada, Australian Citizens...
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fifilafiloche
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iStar said:
Actually, they do. Undergraduate university is free for foreigners. A student coming from those countries can spend a whole year studying for free while in his country he would have to pay up to several thousands of dollars for a similar service. Argentine tax payers would have a right to be protected from this phenomenon.
Timing is interesting tho. USA started the taxation of Argentines right after their credit crunch. Argentina returns the favor right after this country faces similar problems (while being allowed to print money to avoid bankrupcy : double standards).
Tourism is not a major resource for Argentina, compared to other countries with attractive landscapes and culture. France gets 20 times more visitors. Add to this that only 10% of tourists are North American. Chile alone brings them twice as many tourists.
Taxing those countries wont make the country bankrupt, nor significantly affect the tourist industry. But it might restore some balance in the relationship and help their northern neighbours understand that unilateral discriminating decisions do have consequences for their own citizens.
This is just the last "kirchnereada"!
As an argentinian I am against it...the last thing we would need is that less tourists come into the country. If the US, Canada and Australia want us to pay and have stupid interviews at the consulates...fine, I don't want to go there.
Argentina has always been a country of "puertas abiertas" and I want it to continue so! This is one of the few things I am proud of.
CK+NK=dos patos criollos!
As an argentinian I am against it...the last thing we would need is that less tourists come into the country. If the US, Canada and Australia want us to pay and have stupid interviews at the consulates...fine, I don't want to go there.
Argentina has always been a country of "puertas abiertas" and I want it to continue so! This is one of the few things I am proud of.
CK+NK=dos patos criollos!
fifilafiloche said:
I highly doubt someone from Canada, USA or Australia who doesn't speak Spanish is traveling all the way to Argentina to attend school, find and pay for an apartment etc...
vs. Someone from Argentina landing in Canada claiming to be a refugee, and immediately gets free health care, $630 a month in welfare and a temporary work permit.
Which destination sounds more appealing?
Oh did I mention the Canadian government also pays for language classes and career training?
Maybe you can understand why the government of Canada imposes a VISA. It's has legitimate reasons compared to Argentina's protecting itself from the "phenomenon" you mention.
fifilafiloche said:
The entire world is facing an economic downturn. You don't see the them applying the VISA restrictions to Europeans? BTW, you call it taxation, it's not a tax. The fee is to pay for the consular service to process an application.
fifilafiloche said:
Not a major resource? Hmmm...
ARGENTINA TOURISM REPORT
ECONOMIC SECTION
U.S. EMBASSY
BUENOS AIRES
The Argentine tourism industry is recovering due to the return of political stability and a favorable exchange rate. Currently, the sector has once again achieved levels prior to the devaluation in January 2002. Most of the tourism growth is from Latin American neighbors.
To promote tourism, the GOA needs to devote more resources to marketing Argentine destinations, invest more in tourism infrastructure, maintain its current exchange rate policy. (NOT TAX VISITORS)
GOA officials project that the number of foreigners entering Argentina will increase from 3 million to 10 million by 2010.
From December 2002 to April 2003, 67 percent of the foreign tourists came from Mercosur countries or Chile, 19 percent came from Europe, 12 percent came from the United States and Canada, and 13 percent came from the rest of the world.
fifilafiloche said:
Actually it's more like 12%, and that's 2002-2003 numbers, its safe to say those numbers are higher today. Even still North American and Europeans spend more.
Tourists from the United States, Spain, France, Germany, England, Italy, and Canada have all decreased their travel to Argentina. This trend had a disproportionably negative impact on the Argentine economy because these travelers typically have higher levels of expenditure. Travelers from more affluent countries tend to stay in hotels, rent cars and consume more than those staying elsewhere. For example, those who stayed in campgrounds spent 20.32 pesos per day
while those who stayed in hotels spent 67.05 pesos per day
So you see Argentina is taxing the visitors that spend the most (Canada & USA) that add the most to the local economy. Not good business.
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...fxeGHn&sig=AHIEtbSLLnRTVFEi7Qb25EukelSDhje52A
BTW, France and Spain are the world leaders in being a tourist destination. So that's not a fair comparison.
fifilafiloche said:
I suggest you read the document attached to the link above. And tell that to the property owners who have empty rental apartments or the lucky ones who have found renters but have had to lower the rent. I know because my rent was decreased by 25% last month... Trust me I'm not complaining, its more money in my pocket. I'm just calling it what it is... a cash grab.
Besides I have a EU passport and a Canadian one so I'll just be using my EU for entry to Argentina from now on.
Gotta say I agree with iStar. Just because education AND healthcare are free to all, there aren't exactly waves of Canadians or Americans emigrating to Argentina to access them. Just because something is available doesn't mean it's going to become a motivating factor.
Anyhow, this is again a redundant debate bc some have decided the Argentine government is misinterpreting the meaning of the word 'reciprocity'. The government has deemed it as quantitative (actual $ value) and some believe it's qualitative (relative $ value).
All we really need to know is how much it is, when it enters into effect, and what does it encompass (single vs multi entry). I'm just going to be sure that I get whatever will allow me to travel easily without paying the full fee every time I re-enter the country.
Anyhow, this is again a redundant debate bc some have decided the Argentine government is misinterpreting the meaning of the word 'reciprocity'. The government has deemed it as quantitative (actual $ value) and some believe it's qualitative (relative $ value).
All we really need to know is how much it is, when it enters into effect, and what does it encompass (single vs multi entry). I'm just going to be sure that I get whatever will allow me to travel easily without paying the full fee every time I re-enter the country.
fifilafiloche
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I will not enter a never ending debate and quotes battle to find out who is right or wrong, this forum had already too many threads locked for being too addictive to some posters. I will just share my experience.
When i first got into Argentina, i stayed in a youth hostel. Half of the hostel was filled with young foreign students that came for studying in Argentina, attracted by the exotism and the low cost of living. For many, the motivation was to learn spanish at a discount compared to Spain or even Mexico.
The touristic industry is very new to Argentina. There were almost no hostels 10 years ago. What developped tourism is less a government plan to bring tourists than the brutal devaluation of the argentine peso in 2003. There are a lot of touristic gems that are left undevelopped, which is a paradise for travellers adventuring in those areas on their own, benefitting from a fairly safe and intact environment.
I fear this debate brings us once again a bit far from the original topic, so i will stop there my development.
I m in favor of those taxes. I think that Argentina should go further, and fulfill your desire to transform this tax as a fee, by asking a visa to countries that demand a visa for their citizens. Simple question of balance.
When i first got into Argentina, i stayed in a youth hostel. Half of the hostel was filled with young foreign students that came for studying in Argentina, attracted by the exotism and the low cost of living. For many, the motivation was to learn spanish at a discount compared to Spain or even Mexico.
The touristic industry is very new to Argentina. There were almost no hostels 10 years ago. What developped tourism is less a government plan to bring tourists than the brutal devaluation of the argentine peso in 2003. There are a lot of touristic gems that are left undevelopped, which is a paradise for travellers adventuring in those areas on their own, benefitting from a fairly safe and intact environment.
I fear this debate brings us once again a bit far from the original topic, so i will stop there my development.
I m in favor of those taxes. I think that Argentina should go further, and fulfill your desire to transform this tax as a fee, by asking a visa to countries that demand a visa for their citizens. Simple question of balance.
This is the funniest thing I have read in a while
Try as an Argentinian to get refugee status in Canada! The only good thing would be no need to buy a return ticket...de la patada en el culo volás a Buenos Aires sin avión!
And: i don't think the fee would put off any Argentinian trying to ilegally enter into Canada, US or whathever. The cost of the plane ticket does! What are 70 dollars compared to 1000?
