Newtown, Ct School Shooting

[scotttswan]

from
http://www.artonissues.com/2012/01/sacrificing-our-children-in-the-name-of-the-second-amendment/

is quite shocking

http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/119504/gun-madness-in-the-us
Robert Cox in the baherald weighs in too.

 

[nicoenarg]

Like I said before, our society will look to blame something rather than someone. And hey, the ball's already rolling. Pathetic, just plain pathetic.

 

[scotttswan]

Like I said before, our society will look to blame something rather than someone. And hey, the ball's already rolling. Pathetic, just plain pathetic.

I don't see why it is pathetic to ask questions about how someone with mental problems was able to slip through the system, easily obtain guns and go out on a killing rampage.

 

[sinagua980]

The debate should be about both: guns and mental illness.

Helpful for the gun debate... Twelve facts about guns and mass shootings in the United States
Helpful for the mental illness debate... Thinking the Unthinkable (originally posted by nicoenarg)

It seems to me that disturbed will do what disturbed will do, but that laws can help reduce the damage when that happens. For the Thinking the Unthinkable article, thank God her son doesn't have access to guns. Could you imagine that knife scene if it were a gun he grabbed instead?

 

[nicoenarg]

I don't see why it is pathetic to ask questions about how someone with mental problems was able to slip through the system, easily obtain guns and go out on a killing rampage.

This is exactly why it is pathetic. People like you just assume "oh he slipped through the system". Maybe a little bit of research would have told you that the guns weren't his. But hey, why should I expect that much effort from people like you who post statistics and graphics valid up until 1995. But of course, anything flies when you want to make a point, right?

Now on the other hand, James Holmes did have access to his own guns but does that mean the roughly 80 million people with guns are just ticking bombs waiting to go off?

No, again I will say it in not so polite a way, that's a stupid argument to make.

The problem is and the ONLY problem here is not treating mental illness. Our politically correct society wants everyone to feel welcome, even if that someone shows signs that they can not normally function in our society.

Everyone keeps asking "wouldn't it have been better if there were no guns?" I don't know. And neither do you. That is why this is so damn pathetic. What if he used molotov cocktails at the kids?

http://en.wikipedia....egu_subway_fire
http://en.wikipedia....hengdu_bus_fire

Are we going to start talking about banning fire too? We need to get a damn grip on ourselves and actually address the root of the problem. Like I have said before here I would take you seriously if you could make an argument where you were actually dealing with the mental illness aspect of it.

If all you can point at is, "OH EVIL GUN" then I say let's ban everything that looks like IT could do some harm. And that includes everything like knives, forks, fire, sticks, words, electricity, running, etc. And while we're tackling things that can be used to "hurt" people, let's put all our women in bags too so we eliminate rape too.

OR we can deal with mentally ill people the way they should be dealt with and that means proper treatment.

So again, if your argument begins and ends with guns, then you're as pathetic and stupid as the person who makes the argument that only if women covered up more rape wouldn't exist.

And with that I got nothing more to add. People on this forum seem to love going in circles but I'm done.

 

[scotttswan]

This is exactly why it is pathetic. People like you just assume "oh he slipped through the system". Maybe a little bit of research would have told you that the guns weren't his. But hey, why should I expect that much effort from people like you who post statistics and graphics valid up until 1995. But of course, anything flies when you want to make a point, right?

I meant government systems to help people with mental health problems. I presume the US has some system to help these people for the benefit of all society?

Easily obtainable doesn't just include buying guns. They were apparently his mothers, surely there should be some sort of a background check and where there is an unstable person living at the same place as an applicant they shouldn't be allowed guns?
He easily accessed guns which didn't belong to him.

Now on the other hand, James Holmes did have access to his own guns but does that mean the roughly 80 million people with guns are just ticking bombs waiting to go off?

No, again I will say it in not so polite a way, that's a stupid argument to make.

The problem is and the ONLY problem here is not treating mental illness. Our politically correct society wants everyone to feel welcome, even if that someone shows signs that they can not normally function in our society.

Everyone keeps asking "wouldn't it have been better if there were no guns?" I don't know. And neither do you. That is why this is so damn pathetic. What if he used molotov cocktails at the kids?

http://en.wikipedia....egu_subway_fire
http://en.wikipedia....hengdu_bus_fire

You can easily compare the US with other developed countries in regards to guns.
Obviously South Korea and China need to sort their systems that allowed 2 people who had both previously indicated they had mental problems.

Are we going to start talking about banning fire too? We need to get a damn grip on ourselves and actually address the root of the problem. Like I have said before here I would take you seriously if you could make an argument where you were actually dealing with the mental illness aspect of it.

If all you can point at is, "OH EVIL GUN" then I say let's ban everything that looks like IT could do some harm. And that includes everything like knives, forks, fire, sticks, words, electricity, running, etc. And while we're tackling things that can be used to "hurt" people, let's put all our women in bags too so we eliminate rape too.

OR we can deal with mentally ill people the way they should be dealt with and that means proper treatment.

So again, if your argument begins and ends with guns, then you're as pathetic and stupid as the person who makes the argument that only if women covered up more rape wouldn't exist.

And with that I got nothing more to add. People on this forum seem to love going in circles but I'm done.

There is a huge difference between a gun that can spray out bullets and kill many people and knives, forks, other weapons etc...

from the washington post seems to indicate that the American public do want some control over the types of guns available to the public and who is allowed to have them.

 

[arlean]

Guns are not the problem. Gun CONTROL is the problem where innocent people are left with no way to protect themselves or the people who should be able to depend on them. The safest place I ever lived was Billings, Montana, where virtually everyone is armed. It was amazing to be able to walk out of my apartment at midnight, walk up the alleys for several blocks to downtown Billings where Merrill-Lynch has very smartly planted sweet cherry trees and you could sit on the benches and eat cherries (it was allowed so don't worry). You have to be careful who you pick on in Billings because few people are helpless!

Several years ago--I think the 70s--when Congress did what aspiring despots ALWAYS want to do and made it illegal to carry a firearm within so many feet of a school unless licensed, the legislature in Montana convened and licensed everyone.

What do you do with someone like this when the only thing you can do to protect people is use your bare hands? I read a while back where a man in England had stabbed 20 kids with a knife before he could be stopped. I think we need to get real here and quit succumbing to the brainwashing. It is true that firearms can be used for crime, but mostly when no one but the criminal is armed. Crime always rises in those areas.

 

[Nounou]

It is not the gun, it is the person holding the gun I fear.....it is not the knife/syringe/hammer/hatchet I fear, it is the person holding the aforememtioned I fear. Simply put it is people who kill people, the gun or any other object is merely a means to an end. Treat the person NOT the object!

Found this link on mental health for all those interested, it's from WHO so it is legitimate. There is plenty more information out there, the only question of course is when will society find the guts to tackle this issue head on.

http://www.who.int/features/factfiles/mental_health/mental_health_facts/en/index.html

 

[StevePalermo]

In 1996, Australia banned semi-automatics. In the 18 years before, there were 13 mass shootings. Since then, none.

Its still a democracy, and people feel safe sending their kids to school.

 

[PhilinBSAS]

I knew it wouldnt be long before the attack on guns was brought into the thread.. It is terrible what happened and prayers going for the families of those children.

This story didnt make much headlines, I guess because it wasnt in the US or involve guns.

http://www.google.co...7215c7a1646.2a1

Or any deaths !! Isnt that the point?

Did you see what it said - The state-run China News Service said a man attacked the students with a knife outside an elementary school, resulting in injuries which were "not life threatening". It did not give the children's exact ages.

But in the USA he would have found it more easy to get his hands on more effective death dealing technology

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/dec/17/how-many-ar15-rifles-sold

Guns dont kill people? That's just what your helpful quote proves. There are crazies all over just waiting for the opportunity so take the opportunity away from them.