Non-Stop Exodus of Multinationals Leaving Argentina...!

jblaze5779

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It seems to me the question is, whether this is part of the bust-boom-bust-boom cycle, or whether Argentina has entered a new phase in which it will not boom due to investors finally learning lessons. Hard to say.
I think to you and I this would be a lesson learned. But seeing as how the country has had nine opportunities to default on debt I don't think anyone is learning anything here. I feel strongly there will be another opportunity for default in the future.
 

Dougie

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Saying "I don't shop in them so I am not bothered they leave" only works on an individual selfish level.
I disagree. I'm bothered by some of the conditions that lead to them leaving, but I'm not bothered by the companies themselves leaving. 95% of what I can find in Walmart here, I can find elsewhere in small shops. If I buy my fruits and vegetables at the local verduleria on my block, the profits of my purchases are going to owners that are then spending that money in the community. Education for their kids, food, medical care, etc.

When I buy my fruits and vegetables at Walmart, the profits trickle back to the Walton Family worth $200 billion plus dollars. The profits get stashed away in trust funds, shell companies and art stored in freeports.
 

jblaze5779

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To me its a discussion of how much my time is worth. I waste a great amount of income/sanity to myself by standing in lines and going to every little store to get individual items. I appreciate (for what it's worth) Walmart for putting everything in one store and making it easy to get in and get out. I can then go on with business or appreciating my life.

One of the biggest gripes about Argentina is the lack of respect the services have towards the value of your time. They save money by not hiring more people to facilitate business in a quick manner because they do not respect or care about the clients' time value. There is nowhere else for the client to go....

I guess if you're retired and you don't have a job or a family or little kids or places to go this method is ok.

I don't care for standing in a line about to explode from my lack of patience (this is a trait of mine to be improved), thinking about how much of my precious time is wasted.

We can each shop in our own manner but it would be nice to have an option that provides a complete and speedy experience.
 

Alpinista

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I disagree. I'm bothered by some of the conditions that lead to them leaving, but I'm not bothered by the companies themselves leaving. 95% of what I can find in Walmart here, I can find elsewhere in small shops. If I buy my fruits and vegetables at the local verduleria on my block, the profits of my purchases are going to owners that are then spending that money in the community. Education for their kids, food, medical care, etc.

When I buy my fruits and vegetables at Walmart, the profits trickle back to the Walton Family worth $200 billion plus dollars. The profits get stashed away in trust funds, shell companies and art stored in freeports.
1) i doubt that Walmart was profitable here in Argentina. Otherwise they would not be leaving (so the Waltons didn't see any of your money back home)
2) Tax wise it would even be better to spend the money in Walmart than at the local verdulería. Whereas the VAT will paid, the ermployees have contracts and pay taxes, most likely in your local store around the corner this will not be the case (most will be in negro)
Nb: dont get me wrong, i also buy my stuff at the local mercado, but i dont buy it that this is community wise much better
 

Dougie

Registered
To me its a discussion of how much my time is worth. I waste a great amount of income/sanity to myself by standing in lines and going to every little store to get individual items. I appreciate (for what it's worth) Walmart for putting everything in one store and making it easy to get in and get out. I can then go on with business or appreciating my life.

One of the biggest gripes about Argentina is the lack of respect the services have towards the value of your time. They save money by not hiring more people to facilitate business in a quick manner because they do not respect or care about the clients' time value. There is nowhere else for the client to go....

I guess if you're retired and you don't have a job or a family or little kids or places to go this method is ok.

I don't care for standing in a line about to explode from my lack of patience (this is a trait of mine to be improved), thinking about how much of my precious time is wasted.

We can each shop in our own manner but it would be nice to have an option that provides a complete and speedy experience.
I understand your perspective. For some the convenience is worth it, and I'm sure that's part of the reason they've been successful.

All the stores I need are within a 4 block radius of my place, and it doesn't take me any longer stopping in each store than going to a Walmart. I usually get better quality as well by going to the smaller shops. To each their own, and whatever works best for them.

I was taking issue with the Semi's statement that it was somehow selfish for not caring about the destiny of a multinational corporation.
 

Dougie

Registered
1) i doubt that Walmart was profitable here in Argentina. Otherwise they would not be leaving (so the Waltons didn't see any of your money back home)
2) Tax wise it would even be better to spend the money in Walmart than at the local verdulería. Whereas the VAT will paid, the ermployees have contracts and pay taxes, most likely in your local store around the corner this will not be the case (most will be in negro)
Nb: dont get me wrong, i also buy my stuff at the local mercado, but i dont buy it that this is community wise much better
Alpinista, appreciate your perspective, but mine is the following -

1. They've been in Argentina for over 20 years and have 90+ stores. I'm sure they've been profitable. Recently, they've probably have had problems and see that their money will get a better ROI elsewhere.

2. If taxes were efficiently spent that would be one thing, but here they aren't. I rather give the verduleria my money and have them spend it in community rather than have part go to the Waltons and the other to Austral Construcciones SA who will overcharge the government on building a road and then send that money to be invested in some development in Turks and Caicos.

I know we're talking about a few bucks, I don't own a chain of vegan restaurants or anything, but just using it as an example.
 

semigoodlookin

Registered
I disagree. I'm bothered by some of the conditions that lead to them leaving, but I'm not bothered by the companies themselves leaving. 95% of what I can find in Walmart here, I can find elsewhere in small shops. If I buy my fruits and vegetables at the local verduleria on my block, the profits of my purchases are going to owners that are then spending that money in the community. Education for their kids, food, medical care, etc.

When I buy my fruits and vegetables at Walmart, the profits trickle back to the Walton Family worth $200 billion plus dollars. The profits get stashed away in trust funds, shell companies and art stored in freeports.
I get it, but you say you disagree then spend the rest of your post looking at it from a selfish point of view. It’s not about the companies, you could swap Walmart with Carrefour and Nike with Adidas, the point remains that these companies leaving impact people and the economy. Whether you like them, shop in them, or care if they leave is unimportant. So for you, what difference does it make if Nike leaves Argentina? None. What difference does it make for hundreds of people employed by Nike? Quite a bit I would guess.

And I just seen you say I care about the destiny of a multi national company. Jeez, where did I say that? That’s attributing words to someone that were never said.
 

Dougie

Registered
And I just seen you say I care about the destiny of a multi national company. Jeez, where did I say that? That’s attributing words to someone that were never said.
Didn't mean to say that Semi. Thought you were saying it was selfish of me for not caring about Walmart. Apologies if it was taken the wrong way.

I get it, but you say you disagree then spend the rest of your post looking at it from a selfish point of view. It’s not about the companies, you could swap Walmart with Carrefour and Nike with Adidas, the point remains that these companies leaving impact people and the economy. Whether you like them, shop in them, or care if they leave is unimportant. So for you, what difference does it make if Nike leaves Argentina? None. What difference does it make for hundreds of people employed by Nike? Quite a bit I would guess.
I do like the small shops out of personal preference, but I also believe it's better for the community to patronize the shops versus enriching the already mega rich.

In some cases, mom and pop businesses are obviously not possible. Anything that needs massive scale like a company that manufactures sports wear like Nike, oil companies, airlines, etc. In the cases that there are rough equivalents, like, a large foreign grocery store versus a variety of small shops then it's better that the money that was flowing into Walmart now flows into smaller shops. These shops will then need to hire more people.
 

semigoodlookin

Registered
Didn't mean to say that Semi. Thought you were saying it was selfish of me for not caring about Walmart. Apologies if it was taken the wrong way.



I do like the small shops out of personal preference, but I also believe it's better for the community to patronize the shops versus enriching the already mega rich.

In some cases, mom and pop businesses are obviously not possible. Anything that needs massive scale like a company that manufactures sports wear like Nike, oil companies, airlines, etc. In the cases that there are rough equivalents, like, a large foreign grocery store versus a variety of small shops then it's better that the money that was flowing into Walmart now flows into smaller shops. These shops will then need to hire more people.
I am not going to disagree with any of that, nice post. In an ideal world what you describe would happen, I have doubts about in Argentina.
 
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