Outcry as Milei rewrites Argentina’s history

[mc kenna]

We might be reading the obsession of the 30k wrong, i believe that comes down to money as always.
We know that large amounts of money were paid out to families of terrorists but no one knows how much to who and to how many people, so that in itself is a huge black hole that for the former government is better left untouched.
So i think it might be more related to balancing the books, we also know that none of that money went to victims of terrorism before and after 1976.
Also i have to say that there's a huge '' pay back is a bitch ain't it'' from the current government towards those that tried to brain wash the population with only one side of history.
One thing is for certain, Argentina didn't get to this situation by doing things correctly and all we got from past governments were very well elaborated excuses but not one reason to be in the shape we are in right now.

 

[FrankPintor]

We might be reading the obsession of the 30k wrong, i believe that comes down to money as always.
We know that large amounts of money were paid out to families of terrorists but no one knows how much to who and to how many people, so that in itself is a huge black hole that for the former government is better left untouched.
So i think it might be more related to balancing the books, we also know that none of that money went to victims of terrorism before and after 1976.
Also i have to say that there's a huge '' pay back is a bitch ain't it'' from the current government towards those that tried to brain wash the population with only one side of history.
One thing is for certain, Argentina didn't get to this situation by doing things correctly and all we got from past governments were very well elaborated excuses but not one reason to be in the shape we are in right now.

I see, we have a subject matter expert on the case now

First off, the 30k: "It is estimated that between 22,000 and 30,000 people were killed or disappeared, many of whom were impossible to formally document due to the nature of state terrorism; however, Argentine military intelligence at the time estimated that 22,000 people had been murdered or disappeared by 1978".

I didn't know it came down to money, as always, I thought it was more about dead bodies and bereaved families. Thanks for clearing that up By the way, the comparison a former poster made between the numbers of victims of the dictatorships in Argentina and Chile is irrelevant. Argentina at least made an attempt to quantify the numbers of victims with the Truth Commission, until it was nobbled by the "Ley de Punto Final" as well as by 3 military rebellions. Chile had nothing of the sort, and its military retained power, money, and mostly impunity after their dictatorship.

But now we come to your fairly disgraceful smear of the victims of state terrorism: we can agree that there was terrorism, against the state, resulting in relatively few deaths, and state terrorism, resulting in a now recognized minimum of 22000 deaths. However, for the state to condemn someone as a terrorist, there has to be a judicial process. Torturing suspects to death, or murdering them by throwing them out of planes into the River Plate don't count as judicial process, despite your gaslighting.

And we do, more or less, know something about who and how many people were compensated: "Under the Carlos Menem government, Congress passed legislation to provide compensation to victims' families. Some 11,000 Argentine next of kin have applied to the relevant authorities and received up to US$200,000 each as monetary compensation for the loss of loved ones during the military dictatorship, while others such as the Mothers of the Plaza de Mayo refused to take any money from a government they considered to follow the same neoliberal policies dictated by Operation Condor". So, yes, even more gaslighting on your part.

 

[Reply Guy]

If you have an opinion, or even a point of view, as opposed to trolling and gaslighting, I'm sure the forum would love to hear it

I found it amusing that you said you know little about the topic and were reading wikipedia articles to educate yourself, and then Mc Kenna gives an opinion about why Villaruel and the current admin were obsessed with the 30k number and you insult him as a clown and gaslighter.

I gave my opinion earlier. I don't understand the obsession, I think it comes off as trying to diminish the crimes of the dictatorship, and in a time of economic crisis I don't think they should be fighting battles of the past.

I don't see the need for ad hominem attacks because someone voices an opinion that you don't agree with, especially on a topic that you admit that you know little about.

 

[FrankPintor]

I found it amusing that you said you know little about the topic and were reading wikipedia articles to educate yourself, and then Mc Kenna gives an opinion about why Villaruel and the current admin were obsessed with the 30k number and you insult him as a clown and gaslighter.

You're easily amused, I guess. The obsession with the 30k figure is on the side of the apologists for the dictatorship. They, and their apologists (here as elsewhere) would like to have us believe it was much less, and "cancelled out" by the anti-state terrorism. Bummer for them.

The 30k figure isn't controversial anywhere (apart from being an extrapolated, a conjectural number, due to the difficulty of identifying those murdered by the state, which would in normal circumstances actually record murders).

I gave my opinion earlier. I don't understand the obsession, I think it comes off as trying to diminish the crimes of the dictatorship, and in a time of economic crisis I don't think they should be fighting battles of the past.

Omigod, suddenly the voice of reason . But let's identify common ground, 30k isn't a good number of murdered people. Nor is 22k either. Maybe 9k, you good with this? Still wanting to defend trolls and gaslighters?

You can't minimize this, nor can you equate anti-state terrorism with state terrorism. Until now, you could have stepped into the decorative shoes of the government spokesman / troll Adorni, so it's rather novel to see you assuming an actual position. Though you did manage to evade more or less all the points I made

 

[Reply Guy]

I actually agree with some of what you said. I posted something similar earlier in the thread that even if it's 8k it doesn't make it any better, or diminish their crimes.

I don't think McKenna or anyone else on this thread has said that anti-state terrorism cancels out the crimes of the dictatorship.

You are ascribing beliefs to people that they never articulated.

McKenna is a clown, smear merchant, disgraceful, and gaslighter for saying this might have something to do with money.

I am an easily amused troll, unreasonable voice, and government spokesman because I don't agree completely with your take.

Lmaoo

 

[FrankPintor]

I don't think McKenna or anyone else on this thread has said that anti-state terrorism cancels out the crimes of the dictatorship.

You are ascribing beliefs to people that they never articulated.

McKenna is a clown, smear merchant, disgraceful, and gaslighter for saying this might have something to do with money.

I am an easily amused troll, unreasonable voice, and government spokesman because I don't agree completely with your take.

“We know that large amounts of money were paid out to families of terrorists but no one knows how much to who and to how many people, so that in itself is a huge black hole that for the former government is better left untouched”

Lies from @mc kenna and gaslighting by you. Defend it if you can. But be prepared to name the “terrorists”, their judgements in court, and the money the “families of terrorists” received. Especially the money, come on, out with it as if money has never been part of a settlement anywhere.

 

[mc kenna]

And to think that medication is so affordable here....oh well

 

[FrankPintor]

And to think that medication is so affordable here....oh well

Excellent drive by posting, everything I would have expected from you

You’re very obviously not here, just cretinously pontificating, otherwise you would have noticed the 150% price increase on medication since the New Year.

 

[FrankPintor]

This will gladden the hearts of the apologists for the dictatorship here and everywhere else: "Ten out of 13 workers of the Compiling and Analysis Teams were fired two weeks ago amid a massive wave of public sector layoffs. The government programs where they worked were shut down and the statutes that created them were overturned".

UN complaint filed against Defense Minister Petri over army archives closure - Buenos Aires Herald

The Defense Ministry fired 10 out of 13 employees whose work provided key information on dictatorship-era crimes against humanity

buenosairesherald.com

We can't investigate dictatorship-era crimes anymore, because, well, we don't have any investigators anymore. Way to go...