overstatement?

[orwellian]

America bailed out the non-Axis nations DURING WWII with money, bullets and G.I. blood. What history are you failing at attempting to rewrite?

You hardly did it because of your good intentions. You came out on top as the world's super power as a direct cause of the war. The timing of when you entered was no co-incidence. It took 3000 dead Americans at Pearl Harbor to change public opinion though. Which ironically what was also necessary to invade Afghanistan and Iraq.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_advance-knowledge_debate

 

[friend]

O, I'm not going to waste my time trying to justify to you, the acts of any country. Europe has been the beneficiary of many of the U.S.'s actions. No matter how much you wish, will or short sell, I don't think you and your cadre of nay sayers can influence in any way, the swift and certain recovery and ascendency of the U.S.

 

[orwellian]

Ok the Europe thing apart. You seriously believe in a swift recovery for the U.S economy? If so, care to indulge us why you think so?

 

[friend]

Ok the Europe thing apart. You seriously believe in a swift recovery for the U.S economy? If so, care to indulge us why you think so?

Are you kidding? History - dummy!

 

[bigbadwolf]

I might be wrong but I disagree with that. Of course investors lose faith in the euro if they are going to print the money to bail out Greece.

There's no "of course" about it. You seem to be unaware of the most rudimentary details of the 750bn euro bailout package. It is first and foremost a set of guarantees that should any Eurozone country need assistance, it will be provided. That doesn't mean the printing presses are working overtime to create new money. Secondly, to the extent that assistance is provided, it will be "sterilised": it will not enter the money markets as raw new cash. The USA has been doing this for awhile -- why then the anomalous strengthening of the dollar vis-a-vis the euro when the public debt situation is even worse in the US than in Euroland? Most likely what will happen is the trade of Greek bonds -- on the books of German and French banks -- for German and French bonds. In the same way that the US government took off the hands of the banks dodgy collateralised debt obligations. No new money hits the ground.

 

[redrum]

The U.S. has obviously fallen victim to some of its own excesses but remains the greatest capitalistic engine ever known. The regeneration of the American economy is certain. Bet against it and lose.

I'm hearing what sounds like a lot of hubris coming from your posts. When asked what are your reasons for the US making a recovery, you state "history". I'm scratching my head a little on that one. By history do you mean the last 100 years? Or just the years of the industrial revolution? Or just the years after WW2 up to early nineties? Either way, that isn't very much history.

I think ppl are getting the wrong idea when we speak about the demise of the US and the dollar. We are not delighting in the demise of our home country. If anything it's just the opposite. When we speak about these imminent disasters it's because we care enough to do so. Hopefully we're able to reach out to someone so that they might prepare themselves for what's to come. We don't bring it up because we hope it will happen.

Unfortunately, there will be no economic recovery for the US, at least not for some time. We are no longer the "greatest capitalistic engine ever known" as you stated. We haven't been for a while. The govt. is meddling in everything these days and currently controls about 1/6 of the economy. Govt./State revenues keep going down while taxes and capital controls do the opposite. Capitalism and free markets are based on limited govt., property rights, business friendly regulations, low taxes, incentive for the entrepreneur etc. we are currently moving away from this model where we are a country not ruled by constitutional law but by men.

We're not saying bet against the US but certainly don't bet with it either. Hedge your assets with precious metals. I've stated this I don't know how many times since I've joined this board - buy gold and silver. They are some of the best ways to hedge and protect purchasing power. Gold is up 10 years in a row and is not stopping as long as the govt. printing presses keep adding to the global money supply.

 

[orwellian]

There's no "of course" about it. You seem to be unaware of the most rudimentary details of the 750bn euro bailout package. It is first and foremost a set of guarantees that should any Eurozone country need assistance, it will be provided. That doesn't mean the printing presses are working overtime to create new money. Secondly, to the extent that assistance is provided, it will be "sterilised": it will not enter the money markets as raw new cash. The USA has been doing this for awhile -- why then the anomalous strengthening of the dollar vis-a-vis the euro when the public debt situation is even worse in the US than in Euroland? Most likely what will happen is the trade of Greek bonds -- on the books of German and French banks -- for German and French bonds. In the same way that the US government took off the hands of the banks dodgy collateralised debt obligations. No new money hits the ground.

Hold on here. Are you saying that the money supply in the US hasn't expanded? And yes, they have said they are going to guarantee it, and they hinted at sterilization. But do you really think they are going to pay off all that massive debt by doing that? I'd say printing money is the only way. Regardless though whatever they do it's bound to be inflationary. And the USD is different because it is the world reserve currency. That's why it has more creditability than the euro. But yes, eventually people will lose faith in it too.

 

[friend]

Rr: Where to start

I only have 300 years of "American" history to select from. Choose. Take any epoch and Americans have weathered every storm and then prospered. The examples are too numerous to enumerate here, but the Great Depression with its massive shifts of population and resources, makes today's situation look like a "Sunday walk in the park" by comparison. (Yesterday I viewed some WPA works that still serve well.) The greatest predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

Who is the "we" your refer too? Many posts "drip" of loathing for the "States". Somehow the claim that "we" are acting as a herald against the pending doom seems more than a little disingenuous .

[Then you shift tone and prognosticate a possible delayed recovery. Come on, quit hedging.]

A little refresher course: The U.S. government has been "meddling" domestically since the institution of the Whiskey Tax and internationally since it chased the Barbary pirates.

There are series of abilities, mechanisms, resources and traits that America and Americans have and possess that no other "first world country" has in similar combination or level thereof. That statement could be equally argued of virtually any other group - but this combo is and has been, the envy of the entire world.

If indeed - the U.S. government - controls 16.67% of the economy, I submit that that is a minor portion of the control that all European countries exert on their own economies - in a addition to those burdens placed on them by the "club" (EU).

I encourage you to be a "gold" bug. Your statements indicate that you feel that this is the best scenario for you to maintain and perpetuate your future security. Others, myself included, still "engage" in business. We invest capital with its inherent risks, build, hire a few people, produce and like you - let the marketplace establish the value of our "efforts".

In the manner of Steve Martin's character in "Roxanne", I will now in slow and excruciating detail recite the competitive advantages of the U.S. that have allowed it to perform its "capitalistic" magic. I will do so, one at a time, allowing any and all to dissect, examine and otherwise consider these at their leisure.

Are you ready?

 

[orwellian]

You're a fool if you build your argument on only history. You're obviously not ready, more in denial. You're in for a rude awakening. And IMO people like you deserve it.

 

[friend]

When ever you're ready!