Overstaying tourist visa for 1-2 years

[steveinbsas]

I totally agree. I know a TON of people and had several businesses in Argentina. I know NO ONE that overstayed their visa for 2 years and easily got citizenship. The path isn't as easy as people would lead you to believe. In fact, has there been even one long-time member of this board that has gotten citizenship this way?

I read every post about citizenship and, as far as I know, no one has ever posted that they overstayed for two years and easily got citizenshp...or was actually able to apply for citizenhip on their own without a DNI.

Heck, I even have family members from Merco-sur countries that have lived in Argentina over a decade and the path to Citizenship isn't as easy as people would lead you to believe. I remember the good ole days when I read Bajo_cero was helping people get Citizenship but I haven't read any of his posts in a long time promoting this.

If you have a minute (actually more like 15 seconds) you can enter the word "citizenship" in the search box and search for posts by Bajo_cero2 and bring yourself up to date.

Since I just did that, I'll save you the 15 seconds:

Search results for query: citizenship

baexpats.org

 

[steveinbsas]

Some people here seem to have financial interest in spreading the idea that you can get citizenship easily without residency. It is basically spread like it's common sense even though it rarely works.

I have never seen a post by a single person here that anyone can get citizenship easily without residency, so please provide the links to posts that support your assertion that it is basically spread like it is comon sense.

As a lawyer specializing in Argentine citizenship for foreigners without residency, it it obviously in Bajo_cero2's finincal interest to represent clinets who will pay for his legal services, and, in my opinion, it makes a lot of sense for someone who desires Argentine citizenship but doesn't have an income of (perhaps as much as $24,000 per year) to qualify for temprary residency, to pay a lawyer somewhere between $6,000 and $8,000 USD, but only if that is actually a viable route to Argentine citizenship.

PS: I have never used Dr. Rubliar's services and I am not paid for anything I post about him here, and if anyonw knows any other Argentne lawyrs who represent non-resident foreigners seeking Argentine citizenship, I hope they will post their contact information so that anyone considering going this route can get (at the least) a second opinion from a "qualified" source.

 

[ArgentinaVet]

I applied for citizenship using Dr Rubilar’s services in July 2012 and received the carta de ciudadanía in December 2013. The case took longer than it should have because I didn’t get some of the documents together that the judge requested as fast as I could have. At the time I applied for citizenship and throughout the entirety of the case I was on a tourist visa although I never overstayed the 90 day limit (I travel for business so i simply was never inside the country for more than 90 days at a time). My situation was somewhat unique in that I own a business with employees that had been in existence for years at the time I filed my case I did have a DNI that expired three years before I filed my case.
I know of two other examples of people on tourist visas who applied for citizenship who never had a DNI or any formal business ties to the country and won their cases. They did not hire Dr Rubilar; they hired the other lawyer who does these cases and charges less for his services.

 

[steveinbsas]

He's suggesting that if you've hit the two-year mark, you can apply for citizenship in Argentina. However, my understanding (also expressed by @dsp27 here) is that without an existing temporary residence permit, the road to citizenship can be a bit steeper.

As far as I know, if you've hit the two year mark with temporary residency and the DNI, you can apply for citizenship on your own.

I am sure it can be done with permanent rediency of two years following temporary residnecy of three years, as I did over tn years ago, but, according to Bajo-cero2, those requirement no longer exist.

I am not sure if any of the courts will now accpet an application from an individual acting on thier own prior to hitting the two year mark.

Bajo-cero has repeatedly (and recently) posted that it is possible to apply for citizenship as sonn as you enter Argentina on a tourist visa, but it will be necessary to use a lawyer.

If I undersand correctly, his stragety is based on the principles of the Argentine Consitution and he was recenty instrumental in dealing with the pregnant Russiam women who were about to be deported...and weren't.

 

[Brian_is_here]

I feel like a common thought is: can I live in Argentina without any legal consequences and fear of non admittance when I leave after living here without status.

Border runs are not a guarantee. If you want to live here with a degree of normality, youre going to need to get some form of a precaria. One way is to start a citizenship file. Maybe you abandon it. Maybe you start a rentista visa. After 2 years you could apply pretty cleanly for a passport

The Argentine constitution is very easy to “start” the process if not to finish. Maybe you could do another visa. Who knows.

The biggest challenge is complying with Argentine tax law regarding your likely income. Considering the rampant tax fraud endemic to Argentina, you’ll be trying to appease something every one is cheating.

 

[Brian_is_here]

As far as I know, if you've hit the two year mark with temporary residency and the DNI, you can apply for citizenship on your own.

I am sure it can be done with permanent rediency of two years following temporary residnecy of three years, as I did over tn years ago, but, according to Bajo-cero2, those requirement no longer exist.

I am not sure if any of the courts will now accpet an application from an individual acting on thier own prior to hitting the two year mark.

Bajo-cero has repeatedly (and recently) posted that it is possible to apply for citizenship as sonn as you enter Argentina on a tourist visa, but it will be necessary to use a lawyer.

If I undersand correctly, his stragety is based on the principles of the Argentine Consitution and he was recenty instrumental in dealing with the pregnant Russiam women who were about to be deported...and weren't.

You can read section 25 of the Argentine constitution. It’s very clear. If you are white (European), want to teach, farm, or whatever, Argentina is supposed to have no issues with you.

Of course the more irregular you want to be… aka non compliance with tax, usage of public resources, no Spanish, the amount of time and money to invest will likely be higher.

Section 25. - The Federal Government shall foster European immigration; and may not restrict, limit or burden with any tax whatsoever, the entry into the Argentine territory of foreigners who arrive for the purpose of tilling the soil, improving industries, and introducing and teaching arts and sciences

 

[steveinbsas]

You can read section 25 of the Argentine constitution. It’s very clear. If you are white (European), want to teach, farm, or whatever, Argentina is supposed to have no issues with you.

Of course the more irregular you want to be… aka non compliance with tax, usage of public resources, no Spanish, the amount of time and money to invest will likely be higher.

In the Argentine constitution are there any specifics about non compliance with tax laws, use of public resources, the ability to speak Spanish, or the requirement to "invest" any money?

Spanish language requirment has been abolished. Was it ever specified in the consitution?

He has also indicated that paying taxes is not a requirment for citizenship, only "demonstration of an honest means of living" (and that it can be en negro).

I've never read a post by anyone here (or anywhere else) that any financial "investment" is a requirment for Argentine citizenship.

Can you please provide more information about that?

 

[Brian_is_here]

You can read article 25 of the Argentine constitution. It’s very clear. If you are white (European), want to teach, farm, or whatever, Argentina is supposed to have no issues with you.

Of course the more irregular you want to be… aka non compliance with tax, usage of public resources, no Spanish, the amount of time and money to invest will likely be higher.

In the Argentine constitution are there any specifics about non compliance with tax laws, use of public resources, the ability to speak Spanish, or the requirement to "invest" any money?

Spanish language requirment has been abolished. Was it ever specified in the consitution?

He has also indicated that paying taxes is not a requirment for citizenship, only "demonstration of an honest means of living" (and that it can be en negro).

I've never read a post by anyone here (or anywhere else) that any financial "investment" is a requirment for Argentine citizenship.

Can you please provide more information about that?

Don’t look like a smuggler, narco, or tax dodger and your case will find less slow walking and requests from the Judge or fiscal for further information that you might not want to give to Argentine law system.

Someone who speaks no Spanish and has no honest means of supporting themselves could warrant a deeper look.