Paraguay V Argentina, Lifestyle And Taxes

[Rich One]

Thank you for your insights.

https://www.numbeo.c...in/Buenos-Aires
It is true that numbeo might not have enough recent data to come up with accurate numbers given the high inflation in Argentina. I used it as a starting point.
Do you think Buenos Aires is currently more expensive than Montevideo? Can you give me a rough estimate in percentage?

https://preciosmundi...os-supermercado
Do you think these prices from March 2017 are inaccurate? Another poster thought they were close except for some seasonal items.

I agree, it's better to get opinions from people who have experience with current prices.

Please let me know which items are inaccurate.

http://prntscr.com/en3kak

Prices vary from barrio to barrio, and super to super , and small almacen to major outlet, and day to day .
Tomatoes go in one day to $18 to $25 per kilo.

In your budget concentrate on the large items that represent more than 20% of the total. No point to refine items that are 5 % or less..!!

Good luck

 

[steveinbsas]

Prices vary from barrio to barrio, and super to super , and small almacen to major outlet, and day to day .
Tomatoes go in one day to $18 to $25 per kilo.

In the past six months I've seen carrots for as low as $11 pesos per kilo and as high as $20.

Green apples as low as $15 and as high as $30.

Beets as low as $14 and as high as $49.

Bananas as low as $19 pesos and as high as $29.

And the lowest prices actually followed the highest prices....at the same store!

i depends on what's in season and what's on sale.

This week bananas are $19 and green apples and beets are $24

 

[MorganF]

Tres Picos,

Thanks for saying thanks to Serafina in your last post. A little kindness goes a long way! I'd advocate thanking everyone more often

I looked at the printscreen of the numbers and my first comment is: you divided by 16 to get the rate. But in the real-world, any system/method/company you use to get an exchange, will take a slice, of something like 5%. You're more likely to actually get a rate like 15.2 or 15.4. The 16 number is basically the "wholesale" number that banks use, but is almost inaccessible to consumers. Therefore, I would definitely add 5% to all your numbers, to account for this.

I did not look at an of the numbers below that in detail, so I have no other comment on them.

 

[Tres Picos]

Tres Picos,

1 - "Are you referring to the official rate under Kirchner?" - no. Please read this thread and others in the site more carefully. We've all been telling you many many times that inflation is muuuuch more than why is accounted for in the USD to ARS conversions over time: official or unofficial, both under Kirchner and under Macri, due to government manipulation of the official and unofficial rates. I've told you, bonspuppynow (great name btw) told you, serafina told you and others here; I'm sure 100% of users of this site will agree. It is self-evident and non-controversial to any human being on the ground here who, say, witnesses the price increases here and who converts money to/from foreign currencies regularly.

2 - on you using numbeo to find the cost of living in Uruguay or Arg - remember the same skepticism and problems with averages apply that I mentioned above and others are implying. These numbers will be off for your particular experience. Imagine a country in which a bill gates makes $1 million a year and the 9 other citizens make $1,000 a year. The numbeo data will accurately tell you by the average salary is 100,900 dollars but that doesn't reflect your expected lifestyle due to the high standard deviation: you live like a pauper or a king, in the hypothetical example.

3 - it is noteable that we are all expending considerable energy trying to explain this point to you and help you. And I just noticed that you haven't said "thank you." If I were in your shoes, with lots of strangers I don't know from the interwebs spending lots of time trying to help me, I would be thanking them profusely for their time trying to help me decide one of the most important decisions of my life (where to raise my family!!) at the end of each and every post. I don't know why I'm investing the time to help you. Maybe I get a weird pleasure from feeling smart by my ability to flaunt my insider knowledge of the actual cost of living in Argentina.

Morgan

1. Do exchange rates between currencies on average track the inflation in their respective countries? This seems like a hard question and I am no economist but I would surmise that they do. You say there was 35% inflation rate in Argentina during 2016 (btw, please can you provide a reference? I haven't been able to find one.) Previously you claimed that the USD:ARS had barely budged during time. Actually, the ARS droped 22% against the USD in 2016 so I'm not sure where you got your data. Say the inflation rate in US prices were 1.5% during 2016. In that case we would still have about 10% discrepancy providing some support of your claim. However, there are other factors that govern exchange rates. For example, if Argentina became a more attractive investment location after Macri's win, we'd expect higher demand for ARS which could account for some of the discrepancy.

Somewhere else you said that exchange rates "lag" inflation. I would guess that exchange rates are leading indicators of inflation as they are largely affected by predictions about what policies a government might undertake.

There seems to be this notion that because inflation has recently and historically been so high in Argentina, cost of living will continue to go up and up and/or a budget in terms of a hard currency (USD, Gold, etc.) cannot be estimated This seems silly.

2. I'm aware of mean vs median and standard deviation. That's why I try to use median salaries and get data from typical families. Numbeo is also aware of these things.

3. Several posters have been extremely helpful, namely steveinbsas and Rich One. Thanks. Others seem to be some kind of bizarre combination of uninformed, arrogant, and maybe angry.

 

[Tres Picos]

Anyone who says this is a troll or an idiot. Or has never actually set foot in Argentina. Villa 31 and a nice area (read Recoleta) is just a difference in rent and restaurants. Yeah, sure. Have fun living in the villa then with your 3 kids and your nanny that looks after them for months at a time. Oh and with no education I guess they will fit right in and have just as many prospects as the neighbourhood kids around them, the majority of whom, if not all, will face an upwards struggle in life to make a decent living that does not resort to criminality.

But hey, you say education isn't a priority, medical care isn't either, so you know,you might as well just come on over here with your 3 kids and support yourselves on your income. Oh and you know, you probably should be just slightly concerned about human trafficking and the truly sad amount of stories that come out here on missing kids. But you know, you are going to pay $1000 usd a month so that's adequate right? 333 bucks per kid to someone to look after them. Wow, what a generous amount.

But hey, you go ahead. You seem to have it all figured out.

I certainly would be staying somewhere cheaper. Semi-rural, well out of the city. Anyhow, the primary difference between COL in Villa 31 and a nice area is rent and eating out. Neither are factors for me..


I think you misunderstood cost of living (COL) for quality of life (QOL). I did not mean to imply that I would be living in a place like Villa 31. Actually, the opposite.

What I meant is that regardless of whether you live in an expensive neighborhood or a poor neighborhood there is not much difference in *cost of living* when you exclude things like rent and restaurants (which I am excluding). Because of that, I can afford to live in a decent neighborhood.

But maybe I'm wrong. Now that you understand, please tell me which of these items would be significantly more expensive in an expensive neighborhood.

Also, if you think my childcare estimates are low, please correct.

http://prnt.sc/en3kak

 

[Tres Picos]

If Argentina is going to tax your worldwide assets and income and Uruguay won't (for at least five years?) , I'd take a serious look at Uruguay.

Actually, I took a serious look at Uruguay after I moved to Argentina and bought an apartment in 2006. I was dating a woman from Uruguay at the time and she had no desire to return there to live.

Nonetheless I searched for houses in Punta Del Este and liked what I found.

Though I would be happy with a two or three bedroom house, here's what I just found with four or five bedrooms:


https://www.apuntava...e-5-dormitorios

https://www.apuntava...e-5-dormitorios


https://www.apuntava...e-4-dormitorios

https://www.apuntava...e-4-dormitorios

https://www.apuntava...e-4-dormitorios

https://www.apuntava...e-4-dormitorios

https://www.apuntava...e-4-dormitorios

Even if the "cost of living" is really 25% more than Argentina I wonder how much of that would be offset by the absence of taxes on your income and assets.

I suggest you search for all posts here by Pensador. He moved form BA to Uruguay a few years ago and seemed delighted in rubbing our noses in how much better life is there.

Yes, it's looking better.
I'm travelling to Argentina shortly. Will drive a car around the country and visit Paraguay and Uruguay as well.
Isn't Punta Del Este too touristy/resortish?

Thanks for the links.
Did you get a chance to look at the links to houses I posted back in pg 5, post #50?

 

[Rich One]

Tres Picos,

Thanks for saying thanks to Serafina in your last post. A little kindness goes a long way! I'd advocate thanking everyone more often

I looked at the printscreen of the numbers and my first comment is: you divided by 16 to get the rate. But in the real-world, any system/method/company you use to get an exchange, will take a slice, of something like 5%. You're more likely to actually get a rate like 15.2 or 15.4. The 16 number is basically the "wholesale" number that banks use, but is almost inaccessible to consumers. Therefore, I would definitely add 5% to all your numbers, to account for this.

I did not look at an of the numbers below that in detail, so I have no other comment on them.

True Morgan , BUT I got 16 last Friday at my cueva for Greenbacks....

 

[Tres Picos]

True Morgan , BUT I got 16 last Friday at my cueva for Greenbacks....

Even during Kirchner's day's, I regularly made transfers to clients in Argentina via cryptocurrency and never lost more than 2% from the Blue rate. Often I made better than the rate.

 

[MikeB12]

Haven't been to Paraguay but there is a guy here named ElQueso who is a Paraguay expert. Montevideo seems a little more run down and boring in my opinion and the products and services one consumes when just visiting are more expensive than Argentina. I hear Uruguay and Paraguay are friendlier to foreigners in terms of financial regulations and taxes, not sure of all the details though. Uruguay is financially and politically more stable, so on a fixed budget and the need to project costs it would have that advantage.

Prices vary in Buenos Aires even for buying a banana or bottle water from neighborhood to neighborhood, not dramatically but I think that was syngirls point.

 

[MorganF]

Tres Pico wrote, "Do exchange rates between currencies on average track the inflation in their respective countries?"

When there is no government interference, they do. Here there is massive government interference on the official and formerly the blue.

Example: last 12 months. Inflation at something like 40% or 50% annual and the USD to ARS has barely budged. For a year. It has been like this do r multiple years.