Police Brutality in the quarantine Video attached

semigoodlookin

Registered
Why are some even trying to justify this with, "the guy is an idiot". You're allowed to be an idiot and the police are allowed to arrest you if your idiocy breaks the law. They are not allowed to beat your ass while doing it. Forceful arrests are sometimes needed if the person being arrested resisits. This was clearly more than a forceful arrest. There is zero justification for it, so the guy being an idiot is meaningless and adds zero caveats to this situation.

Although, while Bajo thinks being an idiot is enough to deserve police brutality, I do agree all the facts are needed. It's interesting that the police officers involved were dismissed?

And yeah, the cops in the United States are just as bad/worse and there's a reason why they are feared by many people in that country. Why is that a hot take and what difference does it make in this case? The guy should be lucky he was not shot because that's what cops in the U.S. sometimes do?
 

ventanilla

Registered
Why are some even trying to justify this with, "the guy is an idiot". You're allowed to be an idiot and the police are allowed to arrest you if your idiocy breaks the law. They are not allowed to beat your ass while doing it. Forceful arrests are sometimes needed if the person being arrested resisits. This was clearly more than a forceful arrest. There is zero justification for it, so the guy being an idiot is meaningless and adds zero caveats to this situation.

Although, while Bajo thinks being an idiot is enough to deserve police brutality, I do agree all the facts are needed. It's interesting that the police officers involved were dismissed?

And yeah, the cops in the United States are just as bad/worse and there's a reason why they are feared by many people in that country. Why is that a hot take and what difference does it make in this case? The guy should be lucky he was not shot because that's what cops in the U.S. sometimes do?
Cops are bad everywhere. It's just weird to connect this with the lockdown and the new government when police here and everywhere find excuses to brutalise people anyway. The kind of massive structural reform required to prevent power hungry cops doing this sort of thing is well outside of the scope of a government sworn in 6 months ago, let alone during a pandemic.
 

semigoodlookin

Registered
Trust me, I know. But they have to at least give some half ass excuse like "I feared for my life" or something along those lines. But it is not common to see self proclaimed left wing lawyers in the US saying that you have to "obey the police without question even when they are wrong".
Coming from the UK I have never had to deal with police that can simply order you around and there has to be fear around them. There are incidents in the UK, of course, and there is an increasing wariness around police, but still if a policeman "orders" you to do something in the UK there is no obligation to comply unless you're suspected of a crime, and even then their powers have limits. I have been asked numerous times to give my name and address in the UK and have just refused and walked off. I have been pulled over in a car and refused to present my name and address (you're legally obligated to show driver's license if asked), refused to leave my vehicle, wind down the window, or whatever.

In fact, I think that's the same in the United States where there is no legal obligation to comply with a policeman asking to know who you are. I am not sure, but I think so. Of course, refusing to present your ID doesn't always go down too well in the U.S.

I agree police are often quick to abuse their power all over the world, the a socio-economic reasons for that, but there are definately levels on the scale. For what it's worth, Argentina probably isn't very high on the scale.
 

camberiu

Registered
There are incidents in the UK, of course, and there is an increasing wariness around police, but still if a policeman "orders" you to do something in the UK there is no obligation to comply unless you're suspected of a crime, and even then their powers have limits.
Actually they can shoot on on sight for failing to obey orders. I they say so, openly. And they will lie and claim that you failed to obey orders to justify their shooting.

The Met police commissioner, Sir Ian Blair, told a press conference that the dead man “was challenged and refused to obey police instructions”, while Scotland Yard said his “clothing and behaviour at the station added to their suspicions
These claims were all later found to be false. ”.
Who was Jean Charles de Menezes?
 

semigoodlookin

Registered
Actually they can shoot on on sight for failing to obey orders. I they say so, openly. And they will lie and claim that you failed to obey orders to justify their shooting.



Who was Jean Charles de Menezes?
Well a massive percentage of the police in the UK couldn't shoot me on site. It would be impossible for them to do unless they asked me to lend them a gun. 123,000 police officers in the UK (England and Wales), 6,500 carry a gun.


Firearms use.png

So, like I said, incidents happen everywhere but I have first hand experience of refusing to comply with police orders in the UK. If you think its is impossible to refuse orders from police, you've never been to the UK. Again, wariness is increasing because of incidents like the one you referenced, but I have been to over 30 countries and never encountered a police force where it's possible for the general public to generally treat them like shit if they want and there's little they can do.

I have seen people absolutley abuse police when they are asked for their address. Most people would not feel comfortable telling a cop to fuck off to his face in the United States. Go to a council estate in the UK and see interactions between youths and police there and you'll hear much worse than fuck off.

Final edit to add, I am not a champion of the police in the UK and believe they are becoming power hungry as in other nations.
 
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semigoodlookin

Registered
It is a great thing that they don't often carry guns. But when they do, they don't hesitate to use it if you don't comply, as history has shown.
I agree and sorry I was editing as you replied and was making that point. I don't doubt you can get into problems with the police in the UK, and I have seen people arressted for trying to exercise their rights. But, it is less likely to happen that in a lot of other countries.
 

perry

Registered
Here, people celebrate when the police shoot petty thieves in the back, and Macri gave them medals.

As much as I did not like Macri i cannot recall these incidents under his rule . Can you please send me some information regarding them?
 

Bajo_cero2

Registered
Why are some even trying to justify this with, "the guy is an idiot". You're allowed to be an idiot and the police are allowed to arrest you if your idiocy breaks the law. They are not allowed to beat your ass while doing it. Forceful arrests are sometimes needed if the person being arrested resisits. This was clearly more than a forceful arrest. There is zero justification for it, so the guy being an idiot is meaningless and adds zero caveats to this situation.

Although, while Bajo thinks being an idiot is enough to deserve police brutality, I do agree all the facts are needed. It's interesting that the police officers involved were dismissed?

And yeah, the cops in the United States are just as bad/worse and there's a reason why they are feared by many people in that country. Why is that a hot take and what difference does it make in this case? The guy should be lucky he was not shot because that's what cops in the U.S. sometimes do?
I never justified an abuse of force by police, you don't have to know, but before citizenship I used to prosecute police men for torture, abuse of force and executions and I have some experience on what happens when you behave like him.You never win and you allow them to use legal violence. And here I insist, he was arrested super nicely according to his own words he was invited to get into to police car by himself and he and his girlfriend resisted the arrest. All this was confessed by him in his video.
So, the idiot and the police should be criminal investigated.
Art. 144 bis of the criminal Code (vejaciones ilegales) punish with 5 years of jail the police man who use illegal constraints with prisoners but if the person resist to an arrest, then he is accomplishing a duty and/or self defense and in that case we can talk in the best scenario, of abuse of self defense (1-3 years for guilty minor injuries). If the injuries are serious, then art. 142 bis punish it with until 6 years of jail.
(Art. 144 BIS. ...The public official who imposes on the prisoners that he keeps, severities, humiliations, or illegal constraints)
 
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Bajo_cero2

Registered
Coming from the UK I have never had to deal with police that can simply order you around and there has to be fear around them. There are incidents in the UK, of course, and there is an increasing wariness around police, but still if a policeman "orders" you to do something in the UK there is no obligation to comply unless you're suspected of a crime, and even then their powers have limits. I have been asked numerous times to give my name and address in the UK and have just refused and walked off. I have been pulled over in a car and refused to present my name and address (you're legally obligated to show driver's license if asked), refused to leave my vehicle, wind down the window, or whatever.

In fact, I think that's the same in the United States where there is no legal obligation to comply with a policeman asking to know who you are. I am not sure, but I think so. Of course, refusing to present your ID doesn't always go down too well in the U.S.

I agree police are often quick to abuse their power all over the world, the a socio-economic reasons for that, but there are definately levels on the scale. For what it's worth, Argentina probably isn't very high on the scale.
In this case he was committing a crime and he refusal to accept that he was under arrest because he had to weak top early the next morning,
 
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