Populist Governments / Poverty / Corruption / Comeuppance

maw

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I read an article today and tweaked it (only very slightly) in order to more fit my current thoughts. This is coming from a person who has lived here for 10 years and is the father of an Argentinian child. I should state that I enjoy living here albeit my employment is not connected in any way with Argentina.

Can you guys, especially EdRooney (of whose post I often find well thought out and well written - along with many others on this forum) please sound off on it. I'm interested in your views. Especially the paragraph that deals with poverty. I mean it; the post is not meant to be rethorical. I truly want to see where I am with some of my current views.


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Endemic corruption pervades a few of the Latin America's populist governments. It is widespread in the judiciary, police, and among politicians.

When things inevitably go wrong, these governments try to divert the people's attention from their economic plight by blaming everyone else for the problems, especially foreigners. Start with the IMF, America, and then move on to all "neoliberals." Last, but not least, they proclaim that any opposition is merely a coup trying to overthrow them - usually with the help of foreigners who are trying to get their hands on the country's natural resources.

This underscores another problem: the reluctance to admit that the problems are largely self-inflicted. No one made these electorates vote for populist leaders and to engage in wide-spread corruption. Populist governments require two parties: those who use public office to offer favors in return for votes, and those who accept the patronage and then vote accordingly. That means millions of ordinary people are complicit in practices that have poisoned these country’s economies.

Rectifying this is more easily said than done. Institutional transformation is hard. It calls for patience - often a lot of patience as these types of changes can take many years. It also entails acknowledgment that poverty stems less from the lack of wealth redistribution and is far more due to the lack of stable economic growth and absence of the rule of law - both of which inevitably follow years of pervasive corruption.
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One more thing... do you feel these people (the president, Moreno, etc.) will receive their comeuppance one day or will they slowly/quickly fade into history with their spoils and be replaced with new faces?

Having written the above question... I guess I can look back to my own native country and find the answer. If politicians were actually held accountable for their unlawful/highly questionable deeds - George W. Bush and Dick Chaney would, at least, be hauled before a court of justice. Let's add to that list a lot the individuals who could be shown to have a direct connection the the 2008 financial crisis. However, having said that, I recall a passage from above: "No one made these electorates vote for populist leaders and to engage in wide-spread corruption." Many of the people "duped" into the financial crisis were to blame as well. But for the greed of the people, it would have been hard for those at the top to "dupe" them into biting off more than they could chew.


OK.... please sound off.
 
Populist governments require two parties: those who use public office to offer favors in return for votes, and those who accept the patronage and then vote accordingly.

Why is a government that provides subsidies to vulnerable social classes deemed "populist," and a government that provides bailouts (subsidies) to its wealthiest citizens and corporations "democratic?"

Corruption has nothing to do with the people a government decides to represent.
 
What stymies me is how you have so many groups defending these populist leaders.
I would not equate poverty with intelligence; poor is not synonymous with stupid. Perhaps desperation is more of a motivator; and maintaining (or increasing) the numbers of the desperate ensures votes... but after the campaigning is done, why would anyone continue to defend a party that buys them off with a choripan and a t-shirt. It's not like their reality has improved.
Is it that over time people have become so used to the "feeding-time" mentality? All the while knowing exactly what corruption will happen next, waiting once more for another candidate to repeat the same monologues.
 
Subsidies to vulnerable social classes?

When you bail out the wealthy they do not reproduce like rabbits producing countless dependent social program seekers that vote with their stomachs and drive nations into destruction.

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]Corruption has nothing to do with the people a government decides to represent. [/background]

If you are truly corrupt than you will pick the weak minded and intellectually vulnerable to manipulate with your corruption because it will yield the votes you need to spread your.corruption.

Look around you man what do you see.. smell the coffee.
 
Why is a government that provides subsidies to vulnerable social classes deemed "populist," and a government that provides bailouts (subsidies) to its wealthiest citizens and corporations "democratic?"

You seem to assume that there is a dichotomy between the two things. Most governments I know subsidize both the "vulnerable" and the oligarchs. Argentina, Brazil and the USA all come to mind as examples.
 
You seem to assume that there is a dichotomy between the two things. Most governments I know subsidize both the "vulnerable" and the oligarchs. Argentina, Brazil and the USA all come to mind as examples.

Yes exactly and those of us anywhere in the middle foot the bill in both directions. You want a cold hard look at corruption look north. While WalMart was crushing small tax paying businesses the government was using the taxes paid by the small business to subsidize WalMart who put the small businesses out of business. Some of these businesses had existed for generations but are now gone and were forced to pay the taxes that fed their destroyer.
 
You seem to assume that there is a dichotomy between the two things. Most governments I know subsidize both the "vulnerable" and the oligarchs. Argentina, Brazil and the USA all come to mind as examples.

Yet no one would ever refer to Barack Obama's government as populist, no?
 
Why would anyone continue to defend a party that buys them off with a choripan and a t-shirt. It's not like their reality has improved.

I've never had anyone tell me that they voted for someone because they got a choripan and a t-shirt. However, in a basic sense, this is politics. You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. How is a tax cut for the middle class any different than handing someone in a villa $100 pesos to paint his roof?
 
I've never had anyone tell me that they voted for someone because they got a choripan and a t-shirt. However, in a basic sense, this is politics. You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. How is a tax cut for the middle class any different than handing someone in a villa $100 pesos to paint his roof?

I saw the vote buying myself in Corrientes before the last election. You would have to be in one of the villas or very poor areas that is where they do the dirty work. I guess you have not spent time in these places or with the people that live in that poverty. I have.
 
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