Posting, Responding, Learning...

[HotYogaTeacher]

Saludos Estimados Socios...

My first visit to this site was during a search for information on the area when we initially began researching a potential move here. I have gotten some good contacts from this site and some great information. I have information to offer and don't often share it because being on the site can be very energetically draining.

My metaphor for it, shared with a friend today, is that we all went on a really fast, crazy amusement park ride. As one would expect, half of us had a blast and loved it, the other half barfed, peed their pants or got whiplash and didn't think it was so great. As we are all leaving the people in line ask us how it was. Those who had fun enthusiastically begin saying how great it was. Those who didn't like it respond by saying it was harder for them and why. Then the whole thing turns into an argument about how stupid the naysayers are and how their constitutions are weak and they should have known better than to get on a fast ride and so on. It all deteriorates as those who've been on the ride fight amongst themselves yelling about whether it was faster than this ride or that one or the freeway near their house or the park they went to once when they were little. Finally, the whole thing gets so ugly the conversation ends and the real downside is that none of us gets to share our experience.

The reason this never happens in person, like at amusement parks, is that we can see one another at the park. If you start to say how stupid someone is for not liking the ride or for choosing to go in the first place you have to see the impact of your hurtful words on their face. You have to realize in the moment that you are being rude. You can see other people looking at you and see that they don't approve of your behavior. These social impact reports are not present on the internet. Most often we don't see until it is too late the damage we've done, and then no one wants to be the person to say they were wrong.

I will start here. If I have said anything that was offensive or rude to anyone, I apologize. Hurting anyone's feelings or making them feel their opinion was not valued was not my intention. I would like to be able to be an active member of this site with a voice for as long as I am here in BsAs, which may be quite some time. I would like to be able to attend events with the group and not feel that I will be attacked or that I need to feel ashamed of something I said here. I would like people to be able to ask me questions about my experience without feeling that their own will not be honored.

I would like to be a part of a large network of expats who are able to lean on one another and call on one another when we need support, information or just someone to speak English with once in a while. I offer to all of you my genuine esteem as brothers and sisters walking a different road together and hope that when our paths cross we can find peace and friendship in each others company.

Sincerely,
Annie Ory
Bikram Yoga Teacher
Dating, Relationship & Grief Coach
www.MappingLove.com
www.EsplendorYMiseria.com

 

[perry]

Thank you Hotyoga for your spendid post . It sure helped us to understand you better .
I am fully aware that the journey as a new expat is hard and many times we will feel like giving up and running back home to our cocoon . All I can say it does get better if you are patient and many aspects of life here you will grow to like. Do not give up so easily yet

 

[HDM]

I read this site mostly for entertainment, sometimes, but rarely, for information. In my experience, people who have the most authoritative and useful information about a place are not the people likely to be found on an expat web site. But they (expat web sites in general) can be useful in a sort of social club function for people who find their friends via the Internet.

Your analogies are good ones, but that isn't what you started off doing, the post that elicited so much response. Read the first two posts in that series again. They were diatribes, very nearly rants, about how terrible everything is in Buenos Aires and how perfectly wonderful everything is at "home," the home you chose to leave and come here. Was it really not all that perfect? Everything without exception you wrote about Buenos Aires was flagrantly negative (negative being the nice word for it), and everything you wrote about your mystical home was flowery, filled with longing and wistful descriptions of the perfection of it all.

What response did you expect from something like that?

But this issue has become a tightening circle and everyone seems to have made their case. You exhibit every classic symptom of pure culture shock. You will get over it, or not, and if you do get over it, you will stay longer and probably come to love living in Buenos Aires, if you don't, you will simply return to the perfect life at home (and have a few stories to entertain your non-traveling acquaintances). It's not really a loss for you either way.

Buena Suerte.

 

[HotYogaTeacher]

My intention is to honestly continue to post honestly about my experience of being an American living here. My posts are never attacking another human being. Negative or no, they are my opinion of my experience here. I maintain that whether that changes or not, whether I express it in a way that is in keeping with anyone elses opinions, or not, whether one likes reading what I write, what I think, what I feel, or not, I do not attack other individuals on this site. I will carry on doing that, as I believe it is the most effective way to offer my opinion. I invite anyone who disagrees with me, for whatever reason, to continue to disagree, but I politely, sincerely and openly request that those who choose to do so remember that I am a person with feelings.

My responses will be limited to that and I will not engage in back and forth arguments with specific people because it only escalates and becomes ugly.

Peace to you all, may you continue to grow through your experiences here, whatever they are....

 

[Stanexpat]

HYT, good post, thanks.

 

[jp]

I found this site shortly after I arrived. It was great to find out essential info specific to foreign types - banking, changing money, renting, buying, DNI issues etc.

I got utterly put off by endless posts about how greedy/ignorant/rude/arrogant the local population were, and how every aspect of life here was vastly inferior to life elsewhere. Some comments were ugly generalisations, others outright racism. I gave up on this forum as being a stomping ground for cranks looking to vent to anyone listening.

To the credit of to the community and those facilitating it, over the last year the tone of the forum seems to have changed, from being dominated by disgruntled expats with nothing pleasant, constructive or even civil to say about life here, to people who want to talk about making the most of life in this country and enjoying all that it has to offer. And Buenos Aires has a lot to offer.

I suspect there was a time when there would have been choruses of approval when you talk about how backward/rude people are, how dirty the streets are and how difficult it is to buy quality goods at bargain prices. In honesty, I just think a lot of people are tired of reading these views. And rightly or wrongly, a lot of people will take offence at what they perceive to be generalisations or unfair criticisms.

Argentina is not as clean as singapore, as ordered as switzerland, as multicultural as london, as cheap as (insert comparable here) etc. After a time, these comparisons become tiresome for people who have made a life here and love buenos aires for what it has to offer, instead of hating it for what it lacks in comparison to other places.

I'm sure your posts may have value to people who are under the illusion that BA is a luxurious uber sophisticated english speaking city where life is cheap - and in fairness there are probably a lot of people who think along these lines, but for those more in tune with reality your criticisms of life here seem more than a little unfair.

I'm really sorry you haven't enjoyed your stay here. I hope you find what you are looking for in your next move.

Suerte

 

[HotYogaTeacher]

That is a gentle perspective to have taken. I appreciate the opportunity to look at it from that view. My only push back is that I only give an answer when asked. I don't come to this site and just write all kinds of negative things. I respond to questions with my experience. It is important to have a broad response for the people reading it to get an idea of what they will encounter, potentially.

Many people, me included, have a romanticized view of what living overseas will be like. Most of the people on this site don't know me, don't know anything about my day to day life and don't care. In all, I am a happy person and enjoy my life wherever I am. I enjoy my friends, my home, my activities and my work. That could be said if you picked me up and put me anywhere. I am not sorry I came to Buenos Aires and I am not leaving any time soon. When I do I will have made friends here, locals and expats, I will have learned to speak Spanish much better than I did when I came, I will have learned a great deal about this part of the world and what living away from your home can be like. I never intended to stay away forever and I never intended to make any place other than west coast of the US my permanent home.

None of those things are commonly asked questions on this site. Most of the time when someone posts a question it is about specific things and I, when I choose to participate, answer from my own personal perspective. I have been "diagnosed" as having "classic culture shock". If what I "have" is normal and "everyone" goes through it, then why attack me for it? If the prescription is time, then why not be patient and allow me to get my bearings on my own? I expect that once our remodel is over, we've put our "normal" day to day life in place here, gotten the opportunity to travel more in the region and gotten more language skills that some of our experience of being here may soften. I don't know, but I hope so.

This post isn't about whether or not I'm right. I never claimed that my experience of the city is "right". It is just mine. Agree with me or not, I have no need to be right or to have anyone agree with me. I am happy that others have a different view and in fact learn from them all the time. I am glad they share because my opinions alone would not give a whole picture. But then, given that a large percentage of expats here (no, I haven't done a scientific study so I don't know what percentage) are either torn or unhappy it seems fair that those who are not in heaven here should have a voice. I would put it at about even the number of people I know here who are thrilled to have made this choice, torn and hating some stuff and liking other things, and who just plain don't like it here. That is my own perception from the vast number of people I've spoken with about their experiences.

The real purpose of this post is to say that whatever your opinion, the people you are responding to are your fellow human beings and we have feelings and don't appreciate being called names and threatened and being accused of lying because we don't see things your way. I have made my commitment to not behave in that manner toward other posters on this site. I continue to hope all of the visitors here will join me in making it a place where reasonable have conversations. If you find yourself reading something you don't enjoy, consider just walking away, as you would if you were at a cocktail party. Just go find another conversation, or start one, that you do like.

Peace...

 

[Grazie]

HYT, thank you for posting here. I think your post since it is a personal experience and perspective is a good balance to how majority of the posters here feel. Those that love Argentina also respect the opinions of those who do not. The best thing about this forum is you can just be yourself. We do not beat anyone here so they change their mind and conform with ours. We are really helpful and tolerant bunch of people. we respect your right to exercise your right to speak freely about how you see and experience things. it will avail the next person reading here and think of coming to argentina to get a good picture of what to expect and not to expect. Varying posts can only help those who are newbies here in Argentina.
Oh btw, have you thought of visiting outside of buenos aires, just for a day to two?It can only help. I found that people outside of the city are the best people to represent Argentina. I mean talk about heart and smiles and generosity. Te city folks, No disrespect intended here, are just busy and tend to forget the simplier pleasures of life.
In the countryside, the sky is clear, there are tree shades, the stars are brighter and the birds chirp louder. It is tough moving to a new country, I know, really,I do. Just hang in there, it will get better.

 

[HotYogaTeacher]

Hola Grazie, estas de Italia?
Megusta tus cosas en tu sitio del web mucho! Especialmente las bolsas! Meencantada! A donde es la tienda? Si quiero ir y conocer tu y tus tienda tambien...
Paz...

 

[perry]

JP you need to thank Igor here as he has directed the site to a new level and one that is user friendly and balanced. BA expats a great resource for all new people to Argentina and it has 1000s of regular visitors now .
Sure we are not all going to agree with each other but a respectful attitude to all people is needed when expressing your ideas and opinions. In regards to coping as a expat it is one that I fully understand and I can concur that I have thought about giving up on Argentina when the going got tough . I lef three times and within a few weeks I am desperately missing Buenos Aires. Many people who have left end up coming back as this place has a strong energy.

All Im saying do not give up too soon