Price of cafes in BA & Europe

Cant we just admit that BsAs is no longer cheap, and get over it?

Frankly, I am glad. When a City has a buzz, worldwide, as being incredibly cheap, it attracts the worst sort of travellers and expats- junkies, brits who just get drunk all day every day, shiftless hippies of all sorts- I know, I used to be one.
In the 80's, I ended up being thoroughly disgusted by the scenes in some of the "cheap" places- I saw Bali overrun by sleazy So-Cal business hippies who claimed things like "I invented the carved wooden frog holding an umbrella" and proceeded to get rich selling em to Pier 1 imports.

Cheap is a bad thing to be.

Now I do agree, there is a legitimate issue when the people who live in a city cannot make enough money to afford the prices in said city- and there is some of that in Argentina, due to strange government practices, historical oddities, geography, and economic meltdowns, both in Argentina, and, now, everywhere.
And its not good, when jobs are scarce, inflation is high, and people are hurting.

But thats a separate, and much more complex, issue, than, "is coffee cheap in Buenos Aires".

Me, I spend time in Buenos Aires because I love it for what it is. I love the culture, the unique blend of history and people, the way its sort of a Bizzarro world reinterpretation of North America, an inverted take on the melting pot and the blank slate of a new continent, populated by people from all over the world. I love the amazing trove of period architecture, crafts, furniture, antiques, and pop culture from the 1880's to the 1960's, which is often more available, and CHEAPER, than anywhere else in the world.
I love the people- I have great friends in BsAs- crazy, intense, intellectual, arty, cultured, educated, and fun.
I actually enjoy the fact that, since you cannot make $10,000,000 this year in an internet startup, people dont expect it as their birthright, and, unlike the USA, there is much less obsession with the latest biggest car, the most expensive house, the trendiest consumer goods, and so on.

If you really need all that stuff, there are plenty of countries where Mammon is worshiped. Where money is god. Where you can get the latest cheap crap from china for pennies, where consumer electronics are often the main topic of conversation, and, indeed, the focus of many people's lives.

There are also plenty of places in the world that are CHEAP.

I was in this town once, on the southern coast of Sumatra, where you couldnt spend money if you tried...
Of course, its where Lord Raffle's entire family died of malaria, but you cant have everything.
Sure was cheap, though.
 
jp said:
Tee hee. Spot on.

Plus for 18 pesos I can go to a local natural deli, and eat a combo breakfast which includes a muffin, plate of fresh fruit and yoghurt, orange juice and a coffee. Then I can sit outside in the shade of a leafy tree, and relax.

London might be cheap due to the exchange rate, but you still pay through the nose for just about everything.

I still get paid in sterling, and I do not find London cheap, otherwise you are spot on.

I come to Tango, I could go to almost any european big city and find a scene, but in truth, even if it was half as good ( which it is not and I have danced in most cities) I simply cannot afford to live in any european city of any size.

Prices are bound to rise, they need to catch up after the collapse,but they are also rising throughout the world. Time to stop bitching and enjoy Buenos Aires for what it is. Go to Prague if you want cheap.
 
sergio said:
The point of comparing coffee prices was as an indicator of the cost of living, similar to the McDonalds hamburger formula. My point was that Argentina is no longer a bargain. Cost of living relative to local salaries is high. Obviously expats with dollar incomes are more protected but even they must feel the effects of inflation. As for the cost of housing, I don't think it's so remarkably cheap any more. Maybe Pericles can help out here - what is the price of a nice two bedroom flat in a good part of Barrio Norte? I should think between $2-3,000 dollars per square meter. 80 meters = up to $240,000 dollars. Is that such a bargain? I know that central London and Paris are more expensive however there are other important cities in Europe that are more affordable. I am just raising the question of quality of life in Buenos Aires in light of current prices. I am glad if everyone is really happy in BA and is not affected by inflation. I was just throwing out some ideas!

I agree with you that I don't think BA is cheap. & it's really not cheap for people on A$R income. Having recently looked for unfurnished apartments I can promise you the prices are not cheap especially if you start comparing like for like; size, condition, fixtures, etc.

But the coffee comparison is really not a good measure because you can buy a coffee from an number of places, 5 star hotel to hole in the wall & you can get different types of coffee (espresso, latte, etc). The reason to have a coffee is also different. Are you getting a quick shot or are you sitting in a glorious cafe to see and be seen, etc? Coffee prices are not an indicator of how expensive a city is.

Like I said, I got a coffee yesterday for A$3.50. But when I was in Puerto Madero the same -coffee- could cost double or more. But the "experience" was completely different.
 
Answering Sergios question.

The cost of classic apartments in very central neighbourhoods of Congreso, Monserrat and Once can be found for between 1000 to 1400 US dollars a metre. I am talking excellent construction with much better features than most Parisian apartments . The best buildings were built here in the 1920s with incredible bird cage lifts and the best entrances and doors in the Western World.

There are good deals out there even in Recoleta that will cost you less than US 2000 a metre.
 
Thank you, Pericles. Then prices in Recoleta have dropped? I didn't think there was anything under $2,000 a square meter.
 
I am dubious about these kind of comparisons, because there are thousands of considerations and variables; most of the time, I think this is more a way to express a kind of frustration or dissatisfaction with a place by comparing it to "better" places. A kind of "See how bad place X is? Place Y is so much better... see?" This is so common among in expat communities everywhere that it ought to be the expat symbol.

Regardless, I have been living in Buenos Aires for exactly 8 days, so I am certainly no expert. But it seems to me that where I live in Palermo, a few blocks from Las Carnitas, is extraordinarily cheap compared with where I came from: Washington, DC. In Georgetown, where I lived, a small row house (1000 sq. ft.) would be considered a steal for less than $800,000; a 2000 sq. ft. condo could not be found at all for under a million dollars, and it would "need work." A new condo project just completed a few blocks from me "starts" with studios for 1.2 million and goes up to 5 million dollars. So $240,000 (for which you could not even buy a one-car garage in most parts of DC) looks kind of cheap, actually. At least for comparison purposes with other major world cities.

As for cafes and restaurants, my wife and I had dinner last night in Las Carnitas, split a bottle of wine, had two bottles of mineral water, two deserts, and left a 10% tip, for a total of 120 pesos, which works out in my inadequate math to $36. That would not buy one person a lunch without alcohol at any restaurant in Georgetown. That is more like McDonald's for two. And London ... ? That is like comparing The Ritz-Carlton with a Motel 6 in terms of prices.

Therefore, I suppose these kinds of complaints are only ostensively about money, but really a way to complain about other frustrations or dislikes.
 
So to sum up discussion so far, there seems to be some controversy between the correlation coefficient between the price of a cup of coffee and the general price level (or even more generally, the overall standard of living). People lime Sergio are implicitly claiming it is close to 1, while others are arguing it is closer to 0 -- or even less than 0, since London, Paris, and Vienna are such high-priced places.
 
Back
Top