Price of cafes in BA & Europe

[sergio]

Pericles, I was comparing cost of living, in particular in relation to income. The comparison to Europe referred to my view that Buenos Aires is now relatively expensive. Europeans earn more than Argentines, yet prices in BA can be as high as those in Europe. The theme began to wander with people's posts.

 

[bigbadwolf]

Pericles, I was comparing cost of living, in particular in relation to income. The comparison to Europe referred to my view that Buenos Aires is now relatively expensive. Europeans earn more than Argentines, yet prices in BA can be as high as those in Europe. The theme began to wander with people's posts.

Sergio, this comparison is what Americans refer to as a "no-brainer." Of course the standard of living is lower in Buenos Aires than most European cities. What interests posters here -- as befits an expat forum -- is value for money which is often coming from abroad as dollars or euros. In that sense Argentina still compares favorably. If, however, you take the hypothetical (and rare) instance of someone who works for a living in Argentina and has the option of working in Europe, then in the overwhelming majority of cases he or she would be better off in Western Europe (providing there's employment to be had in today's circumstances).

 

[tangobob]

Sergio, this comparison is what Americans refer to as a "no-brainer." Of course the standard of living is lower in Buenos Aires than most European cities. What interests poster here -- as befits an expat forum -- is value for money which is often coming from abroad as dollars or euros. In that sense Argentina still compares favorably. If, however, you take the hypothetical (and rare) instance of someone who works for a living in Argentina and has the option of working in Europe, then in the overwhelming majority of cases he or she would be better off in Western Europe (providing there's employment to be had in today's circumstances).

If you are going to compare like for like, then it is only fair that you should compare Argentina with Spain. Spain only achieves it's high standard of living due to subsidies from the EU.
Do not fall into the trap though of thinking that the living is easy in Spain, many brits have gone to Spain to open bars or work in the tourist industry, only to find that the average spaniard maintains his standard of living by holding down two jobs.
The dole queues and housing markets in the UK are full of impoverished ex- expats who found that they could not make a living in Spain and their once bargain property is now worthless.
Moving into another country to live and work is never easy (unless you are subsidised by a big company). You will not find London in Madrid or New York in Buenos Aires. If you move to another country or even just another city, then that must be for its own sake and not because you expect to find your old home just cheaper.

 

[RWS]

. . . . If you move to another country or even just another city, then that must be for its own sake and not because you expect to find your old home just cheaper.

Cogent and pithy.

If we all agree (how could we not?), let's just drop this much-mangled topic and move on to the delights that Buenos Aires holds for us. (It must hold delights: we wouldn't be here otherwise, would we?)

 

[Johny]

I love the people- I have great friends in BsAs- crazy, intense, intellectual, arty, cultured, educated, and fun.

Maybe you have such a high opinion of Argentines because you are hanging with the cream of the crop of porteño society. Let me remind you that the people you meet in the best neighborhoods of Buenos Aires are not in the least bit representative of the average Argentine. The vast majority of Argentines are not at all what you describe. If you really believe that most people here are intellectual, cultured, educated, fun, etc then you need to go out more.... No offense but you are living in a bubble. Venture outside the well-off areas and you'll see what I'm talking about.

I actually enjoy the fact that, since you cannot make $10,000,000 this year in an internet startup, people dont expect it as their birthright, and, unlike the USA, there is much less obsession with the latest biggest car, the most expensive house, the trendiest consumer goods, and so on.

I can assure you that most Argentines would actually like to have a nice car, an expensive house, etc... The fact that they can't have those things doesn't mean they don't want them. Rather, it means that they earn crappy salaries that in many cases aren't even enough to cover their basic needs. I highly doubt that they find any of this 'enjoyable'.

If you really need all that stuff, there are plenty of countries where Mammon is worshiped. Where money is god. Where you can get the latest cheap crap from china for pennies, where consumer electronics are often the main topic of conversation, and, indeed, the focus of many people's lives.

Well, we all know consumer goods (electronics, clothes, etc) in Argentina are mostly expensive and/or low quality so basically there's very few things that are worth spending your money on... However, not having access to certain material possesions (for whatever reason) does not necessarily imply being 'intellectual' or 'spiritual'. Let's not confuse things please... People can have no money at all and yet be shallow and superficial. Not all evils in this world are related to money. It would be naive to think so...

 

[tangobob]

Maybe you have such a high opinion of Argentines because you are hanging with the cream of the crop of porteño society. Let me remind you that the people you meet in the best neighborhoods of Buenos Aires do not represent in the least bit what the average Argentine is like. The vast majority of Argentines are not at all what you describe. If you really believe that most people here are intellectual, cultured, educated, fun, etc then you need to go out more.... No offense but you are living in a bubble. Venture outside the well-off areas and you'll see what I'm talking about.



I cannot speak for the others here, but personally I have friends from: Villa Lugano,Caballito, Villa Crespo, Boedo, Constitucion, Almagro and Ok one or two from Palermo.
My personal bubble does not include Recoleta or Porto Madero. And they are all not only honest decent and educated, but they are fun to be with and I am proud to call them all my friends.
All I can say is if you cannot find friends here the problem is with you, not with Argentina.

 

[tangobob]

I've had enough of this thread now. I shall leave it to the whingers and those whose only friends are those who can cry all night into a drink.
Stay here please and enjoy your moaning.

 

[Ries]

Johny- are you suggesting that I, or anybody else, should, instead of finding smart, interesting friends, hang out with the lowlifes, criminals, and drug addicts, as it would somehow be more "authentic"?

Frankly, everything you say is exactly as true for the USA as well. And, in the USA, I only hang out with interesting, smart people too, although there are plenty of average americans outside my "bubble".

The majority of EVERYBODY has been convinced they need a new car, a bigger TV, and the latest $3000 purse. I am not very interested in those people, no matter where they live, and I have met them in Singapore and Tokyo, Paris and Milan, Los Angeles and NYC, as well as meeting them in BsAs as well.

I have lived in, and visited, a lot of places around the world, and I am confident that, in my experience, there is a real difference between the current cultural life in Argentina and in the USA, and I stand by my statements. You may not have spent much time in the suburban sprawl of modern day america, but I assure you that, once you look beyond the large, but extraordinarily shoddily built houses, and the shiny new cars, both of which are paid for with borrowed money at high interest rates, you will meet a lot of americans who are exactly like what you describe- earning crappy salaries that are barely enough to cover their basic needs. Beyond that, of course, most are only one mortgage payment away from bankruptcy, and one minor hospital treatment away from losing their homes, cars and other shiny stuff.

If you prefer cheap electronics, and the ability to borrow a lot of money to buy a $500,000 house and a $40,000 car, come on up to the USA, plenty of other argentines I know have. Its a tradeoff we all have to decide if we want to make or not.

 

[mini]

If you are going to compare like for like, then it is only fair that you should compare Argentina with Spain.

Why would you compare Argentina to Spain? Based on what? Language? BA is nothing like any part of Spain I've ever seen.

 

[perry]

From my 2 week experience here, living both in London and Prague, all I can say is that the quality of food is not as good in BsAs as in London or Prague. It is marginally cheaper in restaurants, but not cheap at all.
Property prices may be less, but the variety of neighbourhoods and buildings is not as vast as in Prague and London. If you like living in high rise blocks, fair enough. Also it seems that there are plenty of places for rent and sale that have no takers, therefore overpriced at the level they are.
BsAs is also extremely noisy, dirty, and full of beggars at every corner.
Also the culture is very monocrome; ie spanish.
All in all, Bs As is a poor third to Prague and London for value IMO.

This to me seems like a non genuine post as its full of glaring errors. Where in Buenos Aires are there beggars on every corner? I have lived here for 4 years and have encountered very little begging to say it is practically non existent.

Regarding the noise this also is a myth as there are many beautiful barrios that are peaceful and green. Buenos Aires has 48 barrios and over half are quiet