Prices Electronics

[gpop]

I'm personally bummed about the crappy state of what hold the name of STANLEY here in Argentina(and apparently some are made in Brazil) ... I was getting my hopes up for getting my hands on some good woodworking tools. I was wrong.

 

[ElQueso]

You know, when governments try to control or direct markets, they are doing so with the political vision of whatever party is in power and can make those policies a reality against the market. I have a big problem with socialist and fascist policies because of this, but even more market-related economies make the same mistake, thinking they can control the (literal) chaos of the market place by protecting this, or lowering interest rates for that, etc. Based on what they think is important, of course.

If this country would get rid of the norm of doing things by corruption, if it would lose its desire for a mythical hero to make everything alright for everyone (which is literally impossible) and enforce the laws equally on everyone, no matter wealth or status (and yeah, I know, no country in the world has actually done that - but like working toward perfection, the harder you try, the better things can be) and let the market and entrepreneurs and people who who innovate technically have a freer range to figure things out - the government won't have to do things like "create jobs" (which, here, seems to meant he government literally employs people whether they're needed or not). That will happen automatically. Governments don't create economically productive jobs. the best they can do is make the conditions right for such a thing, but restricting those who would innovate and create true wealth isn't the way.

Argentina would find its own way as a people, not a political ideology, to compete on the global market.

Those who don't innovate or aren't entrepreneurs can have their place as well, in that industries have to have workers. When you aren't forcing wages and non-productive laws on those who are in a position to create wealth, there is more wealth available for all. (and this isn't "trickle down" theory, it's actually economics 101) Let's quit pretending that all you need to do is force rich people to give up their money for the good of all and pay unskilled workers more than their labor is worth. Let's acknowledge that the human race is greedy and selfish and let that work to our advantage instead of always trying to enforce one group of people's idea of how humans should behave on everyone (all the way from who you want to associate with, to how much money you're willing to work for).

What value, for example, is there in a guy working all his life with a hammer and a chisel to break open walls so he can get to a pipe and fix it when there are power tools available for the same job? Or employing 2-3 people to dig a ditch with hand shovels when a machine can do the work of more people than that, faster? Make work? Is that really what everyone wants? Just enough to put just enough food on the table and pretend like your happy, while your wife washes clothes in a beat-up open drum of a washing machine? (or, worse, uses boards in a tub? I know people who do that kind of work, and whose wives wash their clothes by hand)

These are the kinds of results you get here, at least, through fascism and a nac & pop ideology. Look around, it is in abundance.

Some government functionary makes a decision that X product is needed in their home country and decides to make have laws and.or policies made to reflect his politically-inspired opinion. And then when it is discovered that X product, for whatever reason, can't be produced to the benefit that was thought (or is a complete failure), the people who implemented such a policy don't back down but continue to try to ram it down everyone's throats. Usually because they don't want to admit that they were wrong. Resources (both labor, material and monetary) are wasted. Often the methods for recovery cause other problems.

I just don't understand why governments can't protect rights and let people get on with the economics of doing what they think is correct inside that framework. Central planning just isn't what it's cracked up to be, in most cases.

I've watched this government destroy the meat industry, hamper the agricultural industry, the car industry and bring down the thing I originally came here to take advantage of - the international IT industry that was starting to go full bore in 2006 when I first came. Argentina should be doing a helluva lot better than it is, but central planning by the wrong people has destroyed a lot. And the "wrong" people are often defined by the group that considers themselves the "right" people and vice versa. No one wins.

I wish that economic policy in government could be nearly non-existent, much like religion is supposed to be in the US government. After all, what are the two things you're not supposed to discuss in "polite" company? Politics and religion. Let's add Economics to that. Oh yeah, but then the people who don't want to work for their living or aren't happy because they made the decision to stop studying and improving themselves, or those who want to force everyone else to help in their manner, would say that this is just "unfair" and "unequal".

I have yet to see either in most governments worldwide, this one included. But I have seen a lot of huge inequalities visited by this system here, upon a large portion of its population, via central planning gone awry.

 

[Girino]

Have you ever considered that to have cheap and last generation electronics in the first world, somewhere someplace the old and surpassed stuff has to go to?

Maybe we just have too high hopes for argentina. Yes, it was a modern and competitive country... A century ago.

 

[Gringoboy]

I'm personally bummed about the crappy state of what hold the name of STANLEY here in Argentina(and apparently some are made in Brazil) ... I was getting my hopes up for getting my hands on some good woodworking tools. I was wrong.

I'm so glad I brought all my tools with me and they've outlasted anything I've bought here, particularly electric drills. I bought a cheap chinese cordless drill when I was waiting for my stuff in customs, which lasted about six months. On the other hand my Black and Decker/Makita drills will probably last another ten years.

 

[mikic007]

I'm so glad I brought all my tools with me and they've outlasted anything I've bought here, particularly electric drills. I bought a cheap chinese cordless drill when I was waiting for my stuff in customs, which lasted about six months. On the other hand my Black and Decker/Makita drills will probably last another ten years.

Once I bought Chinese stuff to cut iron in Europe (sorry, don't have English word),because it was one job. In 2 days I changed 3 to get the job done, third died just at the end, so I finished with scissors... Father played with it a bit later and changed one bearing. After years he is still using it. He still can't believe, that they made such a good machine with such a stupid flaw (at least you have to make it through the warranty period, to be economical).

It's not only Argentina, everywhere they are selling useless stuff, sadly even renowned brands.

 

[rrptownley]

I bought a Stanley wood plane here.
I was terribly excited once it arrived to the house only, minutes later, to be somewhat dejected at the poor quality and the 'made in India' stamp on the box.
I had to grind over 10 millimetres off the blade just to get it to fit properly through the mouth, and I then had to ask my neighbour to weld the frog to the body as the screw holes that bind the two were put in by a drunk man in a dust storm.

Real imports would be nice, but I also understand why we don't get nice things here.

 

[gpop]

I bought a Stanley wood plane here.
I was terribly excited once it arrived to the house only, minutes later, to be somewhat dejected at the poor quality and the 'made in India' stamp on the box.
I had to grind over 10 millimetres off the blade just to get it to fit properly through the mouth, and I then had to ask my neighbour to weld the frog to the body as the screw holes that bind the two were put in by a drunk man in a dust storm.

Real imports would be nice, but I also understand why we don't get nice things here.

Were you using the planer in lieu of a jointer or thicknesser? Funny how many hand tools are promoted here and yet bench tools are so lacking.

The market here is mostly for metal work and auto mechanics. I have no affinity for those fields so I really can't comment on the quality of those kind of tools. I do find that wood work tools are extremely underwhelming. Parts and extensions for the few available tools are rare.

On my last trip to Canada I brought back a Freud dado set, 2 metres of t-track (so cheap and easily available, yet here it's completely unheard of), bushing/carriage bolts (it's unbelievable to me that I can't find bushings here still), 4 hold-down clamps, and router bits. Recently had a set of Japanese handsaws gifted to me from family in Germany. These are essential to me for table-saw / router joinery work that I do... but I wish that the actual table-saws an routers that are available here would be more varied. Decent bench tools are hard to come by and the jigs I end up building are more to correct a deficiency in the tools as opposed to extending them. Of course, the majority of the tools are targeted at working with either low-grade pine, MDF, or particle-board... it all makes sense then shitty tools to work with shitty materials for a public that has expectation of shitty products.
That's probably the end sum of the equation: craftsmanship took a nose-dive, so did the tools. The chances of ever seeing Grizzly, Festool, and Incra are nill.

On the plus side. I'm seeing more Milwaukee hand tools... I need a new cordless drill and these have a good rep.

 

[TWB103]

On the plus side. I'm seeing more Milwaukee hand tools... I need a new cordless drill and these have a good rep.

I dont know about hand tools though it seems you are correct. However dewalt, makita and bosch pro - all quality power drills- are easy to come by here for a price.

 

[gpop]

I dont know about hand tools though it seems you are correct. However dewalt, makita and bosch pro - all quality power drills- are easy to come by here for a price.

This is true, but I find these are over-priced because of the brand name. Milwaukee is not known, much as Skil is generally unknown here. Most people will spend [too much] on a B&D because of the perceived quality of the name-brand when a Skill makes a comparable and lower priced machine. This is relative to the kind of job you are doing and the service life expectation.
Makita has some great machines, but the pricing is too much for old models. Dewalt has a whole generations of tools that never made into Argentina - and still, as most of the tools are destined for professional use [again, mainly for metalwork, auto mechanics, and obra-gruesa]; few casual home-owners are buying these tools. Bosch seems to be the general choice as it is fairly well represented in the market... but still over priced with little variety.

 

[oiram]

I was in Abasto today and also checking the prices of electronics out of curiosity. Things seem to be more expensive here, but I could not make a clear comparison, because the laptops and cellphones also have lower specifications than the ones I am looking at at home. Though for one phone, the Sony Xperia Z3, I know the price at home.

Here it is 16999 pesos. In Belgium, it can be found for less than 500 euro or 8000 pesos including 21% VAT.

Are all electronics more than twice as expensive as should be?

Maybe the Kirchneristas on this forum have an explanation why that would be a good thing.

As a rule of thumb, if you can buy electronics outside of Argentina it's going to be at least 30-50% cheaper. On the other hand most non-iPhones bought in Europe won't work on Pan-american 4G networks. So you should be comparing the prices between US and here.

Recently I had the chance to buy a logitech K400 keyboard in Euros (£40) or pounds (£35) and found it slightly cheaper to by it here (ARS$600). It's not made locally, but it was cheaper.