Real Estate and the dollar

[steveinbsas]

Don't really care to get off topic of this thread with you Steve...

Then don't.

Unless I'm ignorant of your present location, could I use Evita's tactics and point out the fact that you are no longer in Argentina..and haven't been here for some time?

Did you ever buy property here?

Would you now if you could?

PS: if you want to call me a bitch, that's OK, but it's just an example of someone who has a problem with logic (as namecalling always is).

To say that someone demonstrates ignorance or stupidy is not name calling. To call some one a bitch (whether you spell it out or not) is...not that I mind.

 

[steveinbsas]

Part of the interest in investing in Argentine Real Estate has been it's volatility. With volatility often comes great risk and great gains. The government and it's ever changing policies add to that mix. For some it is too risky..for others not. I personally did not find the risk to reward... a risk worth taking at the time I was shopping.

I hope none of the Argentines who post here often start to call us real estate vultures, but I won't blame them if they do, especailly if they think we are waiting to prey on a distressed market.

Yes, it matters.

I'm the only non Mercosur foreigner where I live. No one would believe I came here because the land was cheap, even though it is.

They all love the fact that I chose to and have come to love living here...with them.

 

[jb5]

Foreigners will not be taking advantage of this distressed market. They will now avoid it like the plague. They came in after the crisis and took the ride up. Speculation on their part will come to a rapid end.

This government, as some of us have been pointing out for a while, has unsustainable economic policies. And they just keep getting worse. Those with money here have been getting it out as fast as they could. Real estate, bought and sold in dollars, was a relatively good bet. That's over for now.

 

[steveinbsas]

Foreigners will not be taking advantage of this distressed market. They will now avoid it like the plague. They came in after the crisis and took the ride up. Speculation on their part will come o a rapid end.

I think you are 100% correct when you refer to real eatate purchased with an expectation of reselling at a "quick" profit.

Those few who have a desire to move to Argentina (city or country) to live will continue to be an exception.

If the world "economy" goes to hell, life in any city will be less desirable than life in the country (where you can produce your own food for personal consumption as well as sell and/or trade with your neighbors...regardless of the "value" of pesos, euros, or dollars).

If and when that happens I hope (at the least) you know how to pluck those that cluck.

 

[JamesKTusa]

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perry: I would be very cautious though buying in Buenos Aires as most sales are especulative with prices that are not correct for the market . For US 2,500 per metre you can find a beautiful apartment with lots of light in a well maintaned building . Properties that are priced correctly sell fast and the demand is high .


jb5: Why prices will change is because real estate will no longer be a hedge against peso fluxuations for local buyers. Foreign buyers will be gone overnight from any market they can't get their money out of in US dollars (and the dollars out of Argentina). So for both local and foreign buyers, AR real estate is now far less attractive. Far.......
And in your scenario, where are the domestic buyers going to get US dollars?


perry: Your scenario is incorrect as getting the money out of Argentina in dollars in not a problem as long as it is declared . There is no change in this law . The problems are that to get dollars for the local market has become difficult creating a premium price for the dollar atm .
This will affect the market short term I am sure but like most things in Argentina things will bounce back very fast once the uncertainty passes.


steveinbsas: My suggestion is to buy when you find something that suits you and fulfills your need...not your greed.


jb5: Foreigners will not be taking advantage of this distressed market. They will now avoid it like the plague. They came in after the crisis and took the ride up. Speculation on their part will come to a rapid end.
This government, as some of us have been pointing out for a while, has unsustainable economic policies. And they just keep getting worse. Those with money here have been getting it out as fast as they could. Real estate, bought and sold in dollars, was a relatively good bet. That's over for now.
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Thanks to all who contributed to this great thread, e.g. the gems above. I have two questions for all you wise, experienced folks . I've been renting 2 years, am thinking of buying but in no rush. Looking to live comfortably without taking a loss, not "investing for later profit".

Q1: Do the recent (Oct.31) dollar-related changes force non-resident buyers to bring "dollars to the table", via the Central Bank which requires conversion to pesos and then back to dollars? In other words, is it still legally possible to do an offshore dollar transfer, legal and mostly white, direct to the seller's offshore account or via a Banco Piano?

Q2: If/when I decide to sell and pack-up, what are the odds that I will encounter problems and/or excess/unjust fees getting my dollars out of Argentina, e.g. to USA?

Thanks in advance, realizing crystal balls are always fuzzy....
Jim

 

[citygirl]

Q1: I'll leave to the experts but not sure it was ever really "legal" to do it off-shore.

Q2: My crystal ball is in the shop but I think it's ALWAYS a good idea to assume you will have difficulties getting your money out of the country.

 

[jb5]

I wouldn't but now personally. My guess is that in the next 2 years you'll see a clear opportunity with much lower prices than you'd pay right now. I'd only buy EVER in this market if I planned to stay for many years. The one thing that is pretty certain here is booms and busts. Also almost certain is ever changing, irrational rules. Really, no one can tell you what it will be like getting money out of here anytime in the future. Always anticipate problems.

 

[fifs2]

Really, no one can tell you what it will be like getting money out of here anytime in the future. Always anticipate problems.[/quote]

This is wise advice but please temper it with the reality that Argentineans are some of most creative people you can meet in terms of work arounds for tricky situations and that as long as you quite well integrated with the locals hou will always find a "friend of a friend" who will help in the money movement respect etc..It does take blind faith of course but makes for interesting life and stories for the grandkids...

 

[steveinbsas]

My crystal ball is in the shop but I think it's ALWAYS a good idea to assume you will have difficulties getting your money out of the country.

You don't need a crystal ball to know how to get money out of the country. You just have to be willing to give the cash to someone who has the ability to "send" it, but you may not even get a receipt. I've never been in a position to do this, but I would certainly spend a couple sleepless nights waiting for the funds to "arrive" at the desired destination.

Of course the "cash" doesn't actually leave Argentina at that point. It would probably show up as a bank to bank transfer within the country where it was "sent."

 

[citygirl]

Steve - I didn't say it was impossible. But conducting a quasi-legal transaction to get your money out of the country does indeed fall under the "having difficulties getting your money out" category for me. So yes, I would plan on it not being easy and certainly probably involving a "creative" solution.

And sometimes, for various reasons, those type of operations aren't available to individuals or companies.

Let's put it this way - our business advisory services group STRONGLY recommended we bill as little out of our Arg entity as possible and to plan that any monies billed through the Arg entity were going to stay within the Arg entity b/c taking profits out of Argentina was not really an option.

(BTW - Argentina isn't unique in this. Try getting money out of China sometime)