Rents - The Internet Vs. Reality

[Girino]

We have one week only to go and we are still clueless about long-term rents in Argentina (we are staying at a family members for the first month or so).
The rent prices shown on Trovit, Zonaprop, and similars look quite high compared to the average salary in Argentina. So what's up there?

Should we assume there is a lot of dealing on rent price? Or that they post higher rents to discourage lower income renters?
Would it change anything to pay cash in USD or EUR?

Word of the street told us much lower rates than the ones shown on the Internet, where Expenses may add up to 30-50% on the rent itself.
Thank you for your insights.

 

[Tommy1978]

hi

I arranged my apartment online ahead of arrival.

it is becoming frustratingly clear to me now that the rent I am pay for what I have is not what locals would expect to pay.

I have yet to work the figures out (significant difference I think) but I would also like to hear if anyone has any experience in this.

it is probably to be expected that the long term stay tourist sites (as good as they are) will have rents that are out of touch with the local rates.

I strongly advice you to avoid them (if possible) and find a friend of a friend, word on the street, this forum etc....

 

[Crema Americana]

The 'foreigner' (short term) rent market is completely different than the local long term rent market.

Locals usually rent unfurnished apartments that require a garantia (a type of guarantee requiring you or someone you know to put forth collateral on your behalf.) Most foreigners don't have someone to pledge their property for them and the contract is usually for 2 years.

The short term rent market does have a higher monthly cost, but contracts are short and no garantia is required.

There are plenty of threads about rent (and nightmare situations!) in this forum, so I do suggest to do some research before jumping in.


And there may be locals that rent without a garantia, but this is less likely in the nicer parts of Buenos Aires as compared to the outskirts.

 

[Davidglen77]

It's true that rents in Buenos Aires, Capital Federal are high in comparison to average workers' salaries. However the same holds true in every major metropolitan city. In my hometown of New York City, a 1 bedroom apartment rents for around $4,000 USD per month. Do you think your average civil servant, retail worker, even entry level professional can pay that rent? Not at all, that is why SO many people live in the surrounding outer suburbs, which are somewhat less expensive, but really not by all that much. Or people double and triple up, rent rooms, etc. Or, they pay those high rents and eat eggs and rice every night, or get family help, etc. I've lived here for 7 years and rents are just as high as you see them on line, sometimes people do get slightly lower rents, but only if they know someone, family friend, etc, but again this is very rare.

If you rent via a real estate agency, you will pay 2 months commission, legal fees, etc. Renters here pay the rent, plus maintenance (expensas) which can be quite high, all depends on how large the building is and what services it includes such as a pool, gym, etc. The highest expensas are paid in those buildings with few units (15-25) as there are fewer occupants to divide all of the building expenses between, and trust me, there are many. Also, if you do get a long term contract, MAKE SURE that it states the renter is ONLY responsible to pay the "expensas comunes" which are the recurring monthly expenses, such as lighting in the common areas, building personnel salaries, cleaning supplies, administration costs, etc. and that the OWNER is responsible to pay "expensas extraordinarias" such as painting of the facades, common areas, elevator replacement and any other major one time costs. If you don't - you will end up paying REALLY high monthly costs when the building has to make major repairs. Also, in Captial Federal, the RENTER pays the real estate taxes (called ABL). So that being said, if you live in a nice building with good amenities, between expensas and real estate taxes, those charges can EASILY end up costing between 30 - 50% IN ADDITION TO the monthy rent and of course, your utility costs.

Are you aware that you also need a "garantía" (guarantor that owns a property and will sign it over as a guarantee of you paying the rent AND proof established permanent employment) to get a long term rental contract?

Sure, if you are willing to pay rent in USD or EUR that is a great advantage for the landlord, but not for you unless you have very easy access to dollars every month. They will probably give you what seems to be a "better" deal which won't end up being better for you because with inflation and devaluation, the landlord will come out ahead as by you paying them a set amount in USD every month, you are doing them the favor of "indexing" the contract against the USD in terms of inflation, devaluation and all of the other economic ups and downs of Argentina.

To summarize, renting long term is NOT very easy here, and there are few if any shortcuts that allow you to save money in the process, unless you have family members or good friends that own properties and are willing to give you a break on rent and the strict requirements that most landlords ask for.

 

[steveinbsas]

We have one week only to go and we are still clueless about long-term rents in Argentina (we are staying at a family members for the first month or so).
The rent prices shown on Trovit, Zonaprop, and similars look quite high compared to the average salary in Argentina. So what's up there?

Should we assume there is a lot of dealing on rent price? Or that they post higher rents to discourage lower income renters?
Would it change anything to pay cash in USD or EUR?

Word of the street told us much lower rates than the ones shown on the Internet, where Expenses may add up to 30-50% on the rent itself.
Thank you for your insights.

There is very little "dealing" on rental rates, either long or short term.

Argentines who earn the average salary usually do not live alone in rented apartments. It would require the combined incomes of a working couple or two or three friends who are being paid an average salary to rent an apartment. Many "young" working Argentines live with their parents until age 30, some even well past that.

Short term rates should include all expenses (espensas en es.).

Unless there has been a recent change, the landlord is required by law to provide you with a copy of the short term lease in English (if you are from an English speaking country) as well as Spanish.

Long term rates do not include expensas (utilities, taxes, consorcio fees) but the total should not come close to 50% of the rent. Be sure you see receipts for the most recent expenses before you sing a lease.

Many property owners who rent short term "insist" on being paid in dollars, but legally the rent must be stated and payable in pesos.

You will only be "willing" to pay in dollars if you bring them with you. It is not possible to withdraw dollars from ATM's here or receive dollars that you send to yourself using xoom. You will only receive pesos. You will not be able to change those pesos into dollars at any bank and you will have to pay a great deal more than the official rate to buy dollars with those pesos.

If you find a long term, furnished rental without a guarantee you can expect to pay a much higher price than the locals would pay. Unfurnished rentals usually do not include a refrigerator or washing machine and may or may not include light fixtures and curtains.

One thing I am not certain of is if it is even "legal" for a property owner to execute a long term lease with someone who does not have permanent residency as the longest "temporary" residency is only granted for one year. While the laws may be ignored, it is the landlord who puts himself at greater risk than the tenant. That is the reason the "garantia" is required for long term rentals..

 

[Girino]

Hello everybody - I thank you for your replies.

1) We are indeed relocating there permanently.
2) We don't have any furnitures and we would like a furnished place because we don't know yet how long we are going to stay in BsAs (2 yrs min.), I am a little taken aback by the tales of crime and violence, and this might makes us want to fly away sooner than expected.
3) My partner is Argentinian and all of his family is there in BsAs, so I suppose this should qualify us as okay with the garante
4) We are self employed and I can provide the landlord with my foreign tax return
5) We have a couple of close friends at Remax, not sure how much this could help
6) We would like to live in San Isidro, Acassuso, Victoria, and the like and we'd rather avoid buying a car, so we don't plan to going further toward the outskirts.

I noticed that it is easier to find a furnished depto in CABA rather than in GBA, and that usually prices are more convenient in the city. I am not yet too familiar with the various barrios and perhaps I might had this wrong.

I am aware about the blue dollar and the cuevas and so on, we will get married in BsAs so my immigrations status will be settled shortly.
I hope we won't be treated as tourist just because we have a foreign income. I am under the impression that Argentinian are very good at spotting and milking fat cows as soon as they set a foot in their country (I didn't like to pay 3 times the entrance fees at museums because I am from Europe, to name one).

 

[Davidglen77]

There is very little "dealing" on rental rates, either long or short term.

Short term rates should include all expenses (espensas en es.).

Long term rates do not include expensas (utilities, taxes, consorcio fees) but the total should not come close to 50% of the rent. Be sure you see receipts for the most recent expenses before you sing a lease.

Steve, my good buddy, we have posted on this board for so many years now. Maybe you have been a bit out of the loop lately, but within the last 2 years, ABL in capital federal has increased 400-500% percent and expsensas have increased, on average 100%. In comparison, rents have gone up in the last 2 years, around 60% - closer to the real inflation rate.

I know a lot of people who are paying $1000-$1500 pesos AND MORE for expensas living in average apartments and ABL of $250 and up per month (now they bill you monthly). Rentals now are around $2500 for a monoambiente, $3000 for 2 ambientes and $4000 and up for 3 ambientes, and these are rents in not fancy neighborhoods like villa crespo, almagro, boedo, monserrat, etc. In Recoleta, Palermo and Belgrano, these rents are AT LEAST 30% more.

Hope you are enjoying country life as always on the Costa Atlantica. Cheers!

 

[ghost]

Hello everybody - I thank you for your replies.

1) We are indeed relocating there permanently.
2) We don't have any furnitures and we would like a furnished place because we don't know yet how long we are going to stay in BsAs (2 yrs min.), I am a little taken aback by the tales of crime and violence, and this might makes us want to fly away sooner than expected.
3) My partner is Argentinian and all of his family is there in BsAs, so I suppose this should qualify us as okay with the garante
4) We are self employed and I can provide the landlord with my foreign tax return
5) We have a couple of close friends at Remax, not sure how much this could help
6) We would like to live in San Isidro, Acassuso, Victoria, and the like and we'd rather avoid buying a car, so we don't plan to going further toward the outskirts.

I noticed that it is easier to find a furnished depto in CABA rather than in GBA, and that usually prices are more convenient in the city. I am not yet too familiar with the various barrios and perhaps I might had this wrong.

I am aware about the blue dollar and the cuevas and so on, we will get married in BsAs so my immigrations status will be settled shortly.
I hope we won't be treated as tourist just because we have a foreign income. I am under the impression that Argentinian are very good at spotting and milking fat cows as soon as they set a foot in their country (I didn't like to pay 3 times the entrance fees at museums because I am from Europe, to name one).

Do not give your tax return to anyone ....ever. And yes an Argentine Land load can crawl under the belly of a snake.

 

[steveinbsas]

3) My partner is Argentinian and all of his family is there in BsAs, so I suppose this should qualify us as okay with the garante

4) We are self employed and I can provide the landlord with my foreign tax return

3) As far as I know, the only way your partner's family can provide you with a "garantia" is if one of them has a property you can use as "collateral" to "guarantee" your financial obligation to the landlord from whom you are renting.

It might be possible to for you Argentine partner to "buy" a garantia from a bank, but I haven't seen any posts about this for several years. Even if it still exists, it may not be available for someone who is self employed and reporting their income in another country.

4) Foreign tax returns are not the same thing as a local work contract and would not carry the same "weight" as the latter in convincing a landlord that he/she will be paid as agreed.

 

[Girino]

3) As far as I know, the only way your partner's family can provide you with a "garantia" is if one of them has a property you can use as "collateral" to "guarantee" your financial obligation to the landlord from whom you are renting.

Then we should be covered.

It sounds very odd to me that they like money and are at the same time picky on where money comes from. If they consider and Argentinian job safer than a foreign job, I think they should revise their thoughts.