Residence, Attorneys, DNI...Oh My!

[A&A]

So, I have seen these issues discussed ad nauseum on the site and poured over many of the responses (sometimes contradictory). However, I have not really seen too much about the following info:

1. For those that pursued permanent residency status and then a DNI, if you hired an attorney, how much did it cost you in total. (per person, or per family)?

2. How did you find your attorney (friend?, this blog, newspaper?, internet?)

2a.) positive experience?

My family is moving down in May and figure we want to be ahead of the paperwork drama while we are still here in the U.S. Also, our Spanish is rudimentary (certainly not legal document worthy), so maybe keep that in mind when discussing price (are attorneys like apartments (different prices for locals/knowledgeable expats v. newbies)).

Thanks so much, and of course, if you have had a great experience please send the contact info...i have one from this board already.

 

[steveinbsas]

If you want to be ahead of the paperwork drama (here), you should be getting your papers together there (before you arrive). That includes birth certificates witht the seal of the Apostille from your secretary of state as well as FBI reports (if you're from the USA). If you live close to an Argentine consulate, you can start there.


You don't need an "attorney" for any of this (it is not required by Argentine law), but an attorney (or gestor) can provide valuable assistance if you are really incapable of doing it yourself. If language is the major barrier, you can go to migraciones with anyone who speaks both languages well enough to interpret for you.

Under most circumstances, recent changes at immigration (no more upgrades from temporary to permanent residency on the third renewal of the visa rentista or pensionado), will not allow you to receive permanent residency in Argentina unless you have a child who is/was born in Argentina. After you receive permanent residency based on that happenstance, any children you also have may also become eligible. If you are coming on a work visa, you may be able to apply for permanent residency after two or three years, but even if that is true today it may not be true then.

As far as "legal document worthy" Spanish, that won't be a problem. Though your documents must be translated and legalized here, all of the authorized translators speak English.

 

[ElQueso]

1. For those that pursued permanent residency status and then a DNI, if you hired an attorney, how much did it cost you in total. (per person, or per family)?

It depends on the lawyer and what kind of residency you are pursuing. Your first determination is how you will get residency. I recently made a post listing the options.

The lawyer's costs can be anywhere from, say, $600 USD to $1,200 USD (possibly more) depending on the lawyer and residency/requirements to get it, per person.

That does not include fees, like whatever it costs to get the FBI report, birth certificate, that stuff apostiled and anything translated. It also doesn't include local fees for applications.

I would estimate all those costs at maybe an extra $300 USD per person, so total maybe $900 USD to $1500 USD. You may be ablet og et a discount rate, I don't know.

2. How did you find your attorney (friend?, this blog, newspaper?, internet?)

Word of mouth is the best way, I think. Someone you know of who had a good experience. I personally have made a recommendation in a couple of threads. My lawyer speaks excellent English and holds one's hand through the whole process, including accompanying one through the process in person. PM me if you want it but can't find it.

2a.) positive experience?

It's all relative. As SteveInBsAs and I were discussing, experiences can vary dramatically here. He had zero problems going through the process himself. I've watched my wife, a Paraguaya, go through absolute hell doing it on her own for herself and a couple of her brothers. I've seen friends of mine sail through with lawyers that they found through word of mouth.

The biggest thing you could do now would be to contact the lawyer and start working out what kind of residency you can fit within (if one exists for you!). Once you know that, he or she can tell you what you need to get there at home before you leave. I can guarantee you it's much better to get everything you can done there before you come here - cheaper and easier.

There are some things only a good lawyer who knows the process will be able to tell you. For example, some people have gotten their birth certificates and FBI reports apostiled in the US (good) but also got it all translated there (bad) because most of the time they require the translation done here. Little things like that someone in the know can help you with.

 

[ElQueso]

As far as "legal document worthy" Spanish, that won't be a problem. Though your documents must be translated and legalized here, all of the authorized translators speak English.

True as far as documents and translations go. But someone who can afford it and does not speak Spanish may feel comfortable going through the rather complicated process (particularly for a family) with a lawyer. Dealing with migraciones without Spanish, on your own, and not even having lived in Argentina, can be mighty daunting, I would think.

 

[steveinbsas]

True as far as documents and translations go. But someone who can afford it and does not speak Spanish may feel comfortable going through the rather complicated process (particularly for a family) with a lawyer. Dealing with migraciones without Spanish, on your own, and not even having lived in Argentina, can be mighty daunting, I would think.

If you don't speak Spanish so well, just go to migraciones with someone who does.

It doesn't have to be a lawyer!

 

[mendozanow]

Go get 'em tiger!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mendozanow]

Earworm...isn't funny how you can't get those terrible jingles out of your mind even after years of Malbec therapy!

"I love chicken, I love liver, meow meow mommy, please deliver........"

 

[Attorney in BA]

My family is moving down in May and figure we want to be ahead of the paperwork drama while we are still here in the U.S.

You can file your visa application while you're still in the US (especially convenient if you live near an Argentine consulate) or once you arrive in Argentina. The process is faster and cheaper if you file for your visa while still in the US. You will, however, need someone to apply for your "Entry Permit" (that is, the document you will have to present at the consulate when applying for the visa) in Argentina and send it over to you. As Steve mentioned, it doesn't have to be a lawyer. If you're traveling in May, you have enough time to apply for the visa in the US.

There have been many lawyer recommendations on this forum and you shouldn't have difficulty finding them, if you do decide to retain one. Take your time and choose carefully. However, while you are choosing, I do suggest that you start working on your documents (see the visa requirements here http://www.fandinoabogados.com/english/migraciones.html). Please note that if you apply for the visa at an Argentine consulate abroad, they may have additional requirements.

 

[White Chocolate]

My wife and I are moving down at the end of this month. We were very concerned about the legal issues, so much so that we came to BA in advance to find an apartment and interview lawyers. After many duds and rip off artists we found Martin Fandino. Coincidently, he is Attorney in BA who replied above. I think that shows he is very into working with people just coming over to BA.

He has been so fabulous I cannot even tell you. He speaks with my wife over skype so there are no phone issues/long distance charges. His English is perfect in fact I think he worked in the US at a big 6 firm. His prices have been extremely reasonable. I do not know the exact amount and they probably would not be relevant to you anyways because we are coming on a foreign company representative visa.

Martin can go over all the visa types and everything with you. He also recommends services that have saved us a lot of money. For example, the documents need to be translated. We got a quote in Chicago for like 2 grand US!!! Martin got them done for us in BA for like $250 US!

I would very much recommend that you contact him and check out his website [email protected]
www.fandinoabogados.com

He turned us on to this forum and it has been great and we look forward to meeting everyone when we get down there!

p.s. we found a mover through this board who seems great so if you are looking for a mover give me a shout and we will let you know how it goes!

 

[White Chocolate]

steveinbsas I think you may need a little of that 'malbec therapy' mendozanow was referring to ;-)

Seriously though, there is no doubt that an argument can be made that you can do anything yourself: you can build your own car, your own house, etc. but most of us don't. Why? Because it's a pain in the ass and better left to an expert. In my book, fools always say they can do everything themselves and the wise admit what they do not know and turn to experts.

After going to BA to find an apartment and interviewing a number of lawyers my wife and I found Martín Fandiño (who is on this site as Attorney in BA). Steveinbsas, I think your hostility is seriously misguided as from my extensive dealings with Martin I have personally seen that he is a consummate professional who genuinely cares about helping expats deal with the transition to Argentina.

A & A, if you have the determination of a bulldog, love bureaucracy, and speak fluent Spanish, there is no doubt you could handle all the paperwork on your own. On the other hand, even then it would be a colossal pain in the badonkadonk which is why, in my opinion, it is worth paying someone else to do something in 10 hours that would cost me 100 hours of headaches. I suppose in the end it comes down to how you conduct your business and value your time. That determination is one you must make on your own, all I can tell you is that if you do want to get a representative to handle your visa, move, lease, etc. I would highly recommend Martin. Here is his contact info: [email protected] www.fandinoabogados.com

A & A, I hope everything goes smoothly for you whichever way you go! If you need to bounce ideas off anyone about other issues like the transfers, renting a place, movers etc. feel free to give me a shout and I'd be more than happy to share with you the things we've learned...