Should Argentina Default On Its Debt?

[toongeorges]

AP take on Argentina's debt situation:

Argentina's 13-year fight with creditors erupted in U.S. courts last week, and the results were messy.
...

Who gets the inside joke?

 

[ajoknoblauch]

T'es gentille toi, je t'aime bien

My fifth language is my worst.

 

[Don Alberto]

Didn't read it all but your BTW & edit were interesting

All in all, there were more than 500,000 creditors of the Republic of Argentina, 38.4% (close to 192 000) were Argentines. Two other very large groups were Italian and German bond owners, who had invested their pensions savings.

 

[dennisr]

Edit: You don't seem to be aware that there were many thousand lenders, who had bought Argentine bonds in good faith, often as their pension savings, that many of them could not afford to have Argentina steal three quarters of their pensions, so several thousand holdouts have no connection at all to the hedge funds. They have been cheated by Argentina but cannot afford to drag a country in court for more than a decade.

Indeed and unconscionable.
However, let me put it to you this way, settled bond holders are realizing about a 90% return on their investment. To settle with Argentina, no big time lawyers are required. Someone is giving someone (private holdouts) some bad advice. Singer is banking on the penalties, interest on the back interest. A Ninety-percent return for Singer and Dart is just not enough? How greedy can one be?

"creditors who accepted the 2005 offer of 30 cents on the dollar have received returns of about 90 percent, according to estimates by Morgan Stanley."

 

[MDZ]

[...] A Ninety-percent return for Singer and Dart is just not enough? How greedy can one be?[...]

Singer paid $48.7 million for the bonds (starting 2008) and wants $832 million now - so 1608% in 6 years. That's how greedy someone can be.

 

[Rich One]

Singer paid $48.7 million for the bonds (starting 2008) and wants $832 million now - so 1608% in 6 years. That's how greedy someone can be.

Forget the 1608 %. Singer Wants The Face Value of the Bonds!!!

It's like as if after the war you bought a Monet painting for$ 50K from a distressed party. Now, you want the Real Value obtained at Sotheby's Auction House, 32 million.pounds for, Monet's Water Lillies.
You area greedy son-of-a-bitch.

 

[MDZ]

Forget the 1608 %. Singer Wants The Face Value of the Bonds!!!

$1.5 billion for the two vulture funds which includes the $832 million for Singer and they paid 48.7 million for it. That is a 1608% return.

 

[Don Alberto]

...
"creditors who accepted the 2005 offer of 30 cents on the dollar have received returns of about 90 percent, according to estimates by Morgan Stanley."

That was in January 2012, if the information is reliable, the creditors should have received more than 100 percent by now.

Can you provide a reliable source for what it is 90 percent of?

clarification:
like 90 percent of full bond value?
like 90 percent of 30 cents?

 

[ajoknoblauch]

Kicillof to make his point to people who can't do anything about it: http://tinyurl.com/pfzajl6

 

[EdRooney]

Alberto,

You seem to have a weird concept of the "morality" of investing. Not even bringing the "vultures" into this, the original bondholders instead of buying US-TBills at 2.5% decided to go for the big money instead and invest in risky Argentina. The reason why they got an interest rate almost triple as high was because countries like Argentina have much higher chances of defaulting.

Higher interest comes from higher risk. There's no crying in baseball.

Investment has very little to do with morality and everything to do with risk (well unless you're JP Morgan). I have no truck with your crocodile tears for the investors who had to take a haircut and are now crying about Argentina's "moral obligations". If they wanted something risk-free they should've bought FDIC-backed CDs.