Street crime as a cultural issue

[nicoenarg]

Having travelled pretty much all over the world, the only places I have seen tolerance of crime have been Nigeria, Angola, Brazil, Argentina and the slums of Mumbai.

To say that you can explain crime by pointing at "wealth disparity" does not only not make any sense whatsoever it is also, in very simple terms, a justification of the crime committed by thieves, robbers, murderers.

I agree with Alexander that it seems to be a cultural thing and not economic related (as much). True, there are always idiots who feel like, "oh that dude's rich, if I steal something off of him, its not like its going to affect him." Or worse, "that guy's richer than me, and I am not as rich, ergo, he basically stole money from me so its okay if I steal it back." Yeah you will always find people who will be stupid enough to think along those lines.

But the problem with Buenos Aires has never been that Buenos Aires has crime, I feel the problem is that people accept and tolerate it as part of their culture...as part of their being.

Talking to my Argentine family (my wife's family) about crime, I have heard the following countless times: "Yeah but tell me where you don't find crime!!" That is not really the point, is it? Again, its not that we have crime here, its that crime is part of the culture. You can try to justify it by blaming the rich but that doesn't make it their fault.

 

[nyer4ever]

Luanda is apparently the most expensive city in the world, from an expat perspective. Mumbai has the most expensive house in the world at 1 billion, http://framework.latimes.com/2010/1...-world-has-27-floors-ocean-and-slum-views/#/0, Nigeria ... a country that is SO wealthy in terms of resources has an alarming rate of poverty.

I NEVER said that the rich should be blamed. I was assaulted in Rio at 1pm on a Saturday in a crowded park. When I sought solace from my Brazilian friends the reply was "You can't go parks alone, even during the day." I know maybe 5 people in Rio that haven't been victims of crime.

I still think that the rich/poor dynamic and the embedded stigma that comes with it produces these types of behaviors and justifications for it.

 

[nicoenarg]

Luanda is apparently the most expensive city in the world, from an expat perspective. Mumbai has the most expensive house in the world at 1 billion, http://framework.latimes.com/2010/1...-world-has-27-floors-ocean-and-slum-views/#/0, Nigeria ... a country that is SO wealthy in terms of resources has an alarming rate of poverty.

I NEVER said that the rich should be blamed. I was assaulted in Rio at 1pm on a Saturday in a crowded park. When I sought solace from my Brazilian friends the reply was "You can't go parks alone, even during the day." I know maybe 5 people in Rio that haven't been victims of crime.

I still think that the rich/poor dynamic and the embedded stigma that comes with it produces these types of behaviors and justifications for it.

Right. And on that we agree.

As for your facts that you presented. Its all true.

But then there is Thailand as well, where you will see the poorest of the poorest on the streets resting against the walls of the palaces belonging to the richest few of the society and the royal family. Never felt threatened for even a single second in Bangkok.

Saw police show up and actually get the perpetrator who TRIED to snatch a woman's purse at the MBK mall (don't know its full name, everyone calls it MBK). He was taken to jail. Don't know what happened to him. But at least the police reacted to an attempted robbery there.

Here they don't even care. "Attempted robbery?" What's that?

Thailand has its red shirts and every other country has its own problems. But again, Argentines seem to be okay with crime, sort of numb to it.

You also have Dubai, a place I am not so fond of, but on the one hand you have the most modern infrastructure and the biggest houses and the nicest apartments to go with it and on the other hand, you have the poorest of the world thrown in labor camps. 20 men to a room, 1 toilet to a 100 men.

I have never had to make sure my wallet is still in my back pocket. Robberies are unheard of there (in 2008 a couple of people snatched some women's purses but that was it). Anyone tries to do something funny, they are deported straight away. Their stance on crime is "no tolerance" and they make that plenty clear. People don't try anything.

I have left my wallet on a table in a food court with people passing by a billion times. Never had to worry about it, never had anything stolen either. Never had anyone even stare at it. Leave a 100 dirham (local currency) and no one would even pick it up. If someone would, they go to the security or the police and give it to them.

Its just the way it is. Crime here is tolerated because it has become part of every day lives of people. I don't like Dubai, and I would be the first one to criticize it but when it comes to things like these, Dubai is light years ahead in the way they think of crime. (As for the way they treat crime, its pretty damn barbaric.)

 

[starlucia]

Like my Argentine partner says (referring to Argentines' general attitude towards everything): "Somos resignados."

 

[LorenzoQuiero]

I don't think it's a "cultural issue," I think it more be a wealth disparity issue. I think the larger the wealth gap, the more crime you will find. Cue Rio de Janeiro, Sao Paulo ... etc.

I don't think Armenia and Vietnam have as many wealthy people as Buenos Aires does.

Just look at the contrast of Villa 31/Recoletta or in Rio Rocinha/Sao Conrado.

I think the visual reference of the wealth gap may fuel more crime.

My 2centavos.

I think the wealth gap is a factor sometimes, but not others. It certainly is in South Africa, where you have people living in gated mansions on the one hand, and people with next to nothing on the other. Vietnam I'd agree as well, I didn't see a huge gap.

Armenia, at least Yerevan, does have a glaring disparity. There are many types (who love to use words to describe themselves and their possessions such as VIP, Elite, Glamour etc.) They drive around in Black S Class Mercedes, Range Rovers etc. while the normal people are stuck riding in packed minibuses that are falling apart. Also India, which has a glaring wealth gap, people sleeping in the streets right outside of buildings with million dollar condos in Mumbai, but a low violent crime rate.

Of course, I'm not claiming to have statistics to back this up. It's just my perceptions based on what I've seen. I suspect there is no one factor in any place that makes it violent or not, but probably a complex mix of factors.