Bajo_cero2
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A bailarin dance for showing off while the milonguero dance with his partner, it is all about the embrace.
Tango Peeps: What's Your Favorite Milonga, And Why?
- Thread starter HelaineT
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A bailarin dance for showing off while the milonguero dance with his partner, it is all about the embrace.
HelaineT
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Come on, bajo_cero, that's a limited and negative view of someone who has a different aesthetic than yours. Sure there are bailarines who dance in milongas to show off, with no emotion. I think they're a minority, and I don't care about them, nor do most women I know.
Demokritos, I can offer a different simple answer: a bailarin is professionally trained, while a milonguero has learned to dance in any of a variety of ways: from family members, other men in the neighborhood, or local classes.
Dare I elaborate?
My view of a bailarin, demokritos, is one with lot of training in tango and who brings artistry to his interpretation of the music; his movements are clean and precise, and his musicality is highly developed. He's sometimes a professional. (I'm looking for a professional partner. But aside from that, I'm happiest when I meet someone on the dance floor who can create a dialog with me on various levels - emotional, musical, artistic. ) Bailarines can also have heart and soul in their tango; they can make a woman melt in their embrace, and make her heart pound with emotion, like great milongueros do.
Milongueros dance for the embrace, as bajo_cero says. Sometimes when I dance with a good milonguero, I feel love. Sometimes I have had to sit down between tandas and wait a whole tango before looking up again for another invitation, because I needed time for my emotions to quiet down. Sometimes milongueros are simply happy to have their arms around a woman, and that's nice too.
Many of the top milongueros that bajo_cero mentioned at Cachirulo are also very creative, dynamic, and passionate, and have an exquisite sense of the music. They have mastery in their lead. I finally broke the ice with some of this group last night at Lujos and danced with many of them. They are wonderful! The group was mostly in their 60's and 70's. Stylistically, most are rather "casero".
I do find many milongueros just boring - they may have a good embrace but may not have a good feeling for the music, or creativity in their improvisation. But they are on the dance floor all night with milongueras who are happy to dance with them.
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Come on, bajo_cero, that's a limited and negative view of someone who has a different aesthetic than yours. Sure there are bailarines who dance in milongas to show off, with no emotion. I think they're a minority, and I don't care about them, nor do most women I know.
Demokritos, I can offer a different simple answer: a bailarin is professionally trained, while a milonguero has learned to dance in any of a variety of ways: from family members, other men in the neighborhood, or local classes.
Dare I elaborate?
My view of a bailarin, demokritos, is one with lot of training in tango and who brings artistry to his interpretation of the music; his movements are clean and precise, and his musicality is highly developed. He's sometimes a professional. (I'm looking for a professional partner. But aside from that, I'm happiest when I meet someone on the dance floor who can create a dialog with me on various levels - emotional, musical, artistic. ) Bailarines can also have heart and soul in their tango; they can make a woman melt in their embrace, and make her heart pound with emotion, like great milongueros do.
Milongueros dance for the embrace, as bajo_cero says. Sometimes when I dance with a good milonguero, I feel love. Sometimes I have had to sit down between tandas and wait a whole tango before looking up again for another invitation, because I needed time for my emotions to quiet down. Sometimes milongueros are simply happy to have their arms around a woman, and that's nice too.
Many of the top milongueros that bajo_cero mentioned at Cachirulo are also very creative, dynamic, and passionate, and have an exquisite sense of the music. They have mastery in their lead. I finally broke the ice with some of this group last night at Lujos and danced with many of them. They are wonderful! The group was mostly in their 60's and 70's. Stylistically, most are rather "casero".
I do find many milongueros just boring - they may have a good embrace but may not have a good feeling for the music, or creativity in their improvisation. But they are on the dance floor all night with milongueras who are happy to dance with them.
Bajo_cero2
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No. I described 2 different approachs to tango dancing. If you see a milonguero dancing, it doesn´t look terrific even he might be a great one.
For bailarines is all about how it looks for the observer.
However, we don´t have to agree.
HelaineT
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For anyone who's interested, here's an update from Goldilocks who's finding her "just right" milongas. (I've even received a phone call from someone I didn't know before to see if I was still perplexed.)
Part 1 - Breaking my resistance to Cachirulo
Tuesday a German tanguero friend took me out to coffee to have a talk with me about how I can change my attitude and see Cachirulo differently. He knew that I had no intention to go again, and he thought it was a pity, because the level of the dancers is one of the best in the city, as Bajo_Cero also said. My German friend is a wonderful milonguero, one of the few "foreigners", if not the only one, that I love to dance with, who has over the years become an "inner circle" regular at Cachirulo. He helped me see how my thoughts were blocking me from having a good time there, and even suggested ways to change my appearance and get treated differently!! I wasn't expecting a makeover when I went for coffee.
(I thought he was intrusive, since I hadn't asked, but I thanked him for his ideas.) He urged me to go to Cachirulo that night. I was planning to go to elsewhere.
I didn't want to go to Cachirulo - felt very resistant - but a little voice said, "Just go and sit wherever they put you, and just enjoy the evening sitting there in appreciation. You don't have to dance. Just appreciate." I finally gave in and took 2 hours to get dressed - it was near-agony - following my friend's suggestions, choosing something totally different to wear, and changing my hairstyle and even my earrings. It was a very different look. But I finally felt good and went to Cachirulo around 11pm, without a reservation. I arrived feeling a totally new appreciation for the organizers, and with the attitude that I was simply going to spend the evening relaxed . . . and appreciating.
When I walked in and greeted the organizer with a kiss, he recognized me, looked me over quickly, and took me by the hand and practically pulled me across the busy dance floor (!) to an empty seat at a table front-and-center to the pista. I couldn't have had a better seat. The moment i had settled in and started watching, a man sitting on the other side - one who had ignored me at previous Cachirulo and Lujos nights - invited me. I looked behind me to make sure he wasn't inviting someone else. Between tangos he asked, "Is this your first time here? No?? How come we've never danced before?" I danced a few more okay tandas with average dancers and then I just sat for a while. (I was still selective.) In the last hour I danced a lot. The organizer's wife came over at the end to make sure I knew about Saturday night's location. I didn't get to dance with the cream of the crop that night but I had a lot of fun and felt welcome. I remembered being advised by friends that it may take several weeks or even longer even for a good dancer to be accepted by the "inner circle", the best dancers - even if they dance with me at other milongas.
My new milonga schedule in the next post, so this doesn't get even longer.
Part 1 - Breaking my resistance to Cachirulo
Tuesday a German tanguero friend took me out to coffee to have a talk with me about how I can change my attitude and see Cachirulo differently. He knew that I had no intention to go again, and he thought it was a pity, because the level of the dancers is one of the best in the city, as Bajo_Cero also said. My German friend is a wonderful milonguero, one of the few "foreigners", if not the only one, that I love to dance with, who has over the years become an "inner circle" regular at Cachirulo. He helped me see how my thoughts were blocking me from having a good time there, and even suggested ways to change my appearance and get treated differently!! I wasn't expecting a makeover when I went for coffee.
(I thought he was intrusive, since I hadn't asked, but I thanked him for his ideas.) He urged me to go to Cachirulo that night. I was planning to go to elsewhere.I didn't want to go to Cachirulo - felt very resistant - but a little voice said, "Just go and sit wherever they put you, and just enjoy the evening sitting there in appreciation. You don't have to dance. Just appreciate." I finally gave in and took 2 hours to get dressed - it was near-agony - following my friend's suggestions, choosing something totally different to wear, and changing my hairstyle and even my earrings. It was a very different look. But I finally felt good and went to Cachirulo around 11pm, without a reservation. I arrived feeling a totally new appreciation for the organizers, and with the attitude that I was simply going to spend the evening relaxed . . . and appreciating.
When I walked in and greeted the organizer with a kiss, he recognized me, looked me over quickly, and took me by the hand and practically pulled me across the busy dance floor (!) to an empty seat at a table front-and-center to the pista. I couldn't have had a better seat. The moment i had settled in and started watching, a man sitting on the other side - one who had ignored me at previous Cachirulo and Lujos nights - invited me. I looked behind me to make sure he wasn't inviting someone else. Between tangos he asked, "Is this your first time here? No?? How come we've never danced before?" I danced a few more okay tandas with average dancers and then I just sat for a while. (I was still selective.) In the last hour I danced a lot. The organizer's wife came over at the end to make sure I knew about Saturday night's location. I didn't get to dance with the cream of the crop that night but I had a lot of fun and felt welcome. I remembered being advised by friends that it may take several weeks or even longer even for a good dancer to be accepted by the "inner circle", the best dancers - even if they dance with me at other milongas.
My new milonga schedule in the next post, so this doesn't get even longer.
HelaineT
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[font=Helvetica Neue'][background=rgb(255, 255, 255)]Part 2 - my new milonga preferences.
People always say, "you have to keep going back", but I kept trying various milongas, looking for the ones that felt good to me, so I'd WANT to keep going back.
Here's my list of favorites:
Monday - rest
Tuesday - Cachirulo en El Beso
Wednesday - rest or Fruto Dulce at Villa Malcolm
Thursday - Lujos en El Beso
Friday - Early sometimes: La Milonga de Buenos Aires (Obelisco) / Late: Yira Yira (currently at Centro Region Leonesa, otherwise at La Nacional)
Saturday - Cachirulo en Obelisco Tango - I'll give it another try.
Sunday - Early: Lujos en Plaza Bohemia / Later: Viva La Pepa at Villa Malcolm[/background][/font]
[font=Helvetica Neue'][background=rgb(255, 255, 255)]Thanks again to forum members who helped me in any way to figure this out![/background][/font]
People always say, "you have to keep going back", but I kept trying various milongas, looking for the ones that felt good to me, so I'd WANT to keep going back.
Here's my list of favorites:
Monday - rest
Tuesday - Cachirulo en El Beso
Wednesday - rest or Fruto Dulce at Villa Malcolm
Thursday - Lujos en El Beso
Friday - Early sometimes: La Milonga de Buenos Aires (Obelisco) / Late: Yira Yira (currently at Centro Region Leonesa, otherwise at La Nacional)
Saturday - Cachirulo en Obelisco Tango - I'll give it another try.
Sunday - Early: Lujos en Plaza Bohemia / Later: Viva La Pepa at Villa Malcolm[/background][/font]
[font=Helvetica Neue'][background=rgb(255, 255, 255)]Thanks again to forum members who helped me in any way to figure this out![/background][/font]
I carefully read through the tread - thank you for many insights and a lively discussion of (what i view as ) subtle psychological differences between milongas...
I did not like Cachirulo, very much repeating your story, having gone once only... I had a good time at Lo De Celia always, and Canning on Sunday afternoons; most fun for me was Sueno Porteno - but that is also where you have to be discriminating... It seemed comfotable and relaxed, in a feel good, be what it may type of way.
I wonder if you would mind sharing your 'makeover' tips and tricks? It is possibly an important thing... I understand at Cachirulo it is not ok to dress provocatively, yet they don't welcome subtle either. And that rules of the game may be different for new faces vs. known tangueras or professionals.
HelaineT
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Thanks for sharing your list of favorite milongas, Cialu.
My "makeover" consisted of:
1) wearing a colorful strapless dress, rather than my various black palazzo pants wih tube tops, or worse, with black long sleeves;
2) tying all my hair on my left side to fall neatly over my shoulder, rather than always leaving a big mass of curls pulled slightly off my face;
3) bright, sparkly earrings on my earlobes, rather than subtle hoops of a duller metal. To me, the new earrings lit up my face.
The bright blue dress probably made the biggest difference, but with the changed hairstyle and earrings, I FELT different, so my energy was new.
The biggest change, however, was my attitude of appreciation rather than perplexity or criticism. Also, I had gotten in to the habit of staying tll the end.
Last night (Tues.) I must have finally broken the ice in Cachirulo. . I danced a lot with many of the excellent dancers that I'd been watching for a long time. Every tanda was outstanding; not one was mediocre or just okay. In every tanda I danced, I experienced a level of PLEASURE that set a new standard for me in Buenos Aires milongas.
If you want to try to experience something similar, I suggest you:
1) stay till the end of a milonga in which you want to become accepted, so men who have already been satisfied dancing with their regular favorites might be ready to try someone new when some of their regulars go home;
2) go back week after week for a while;
3) make sure you're internally appreciating everything you can, and focusing on feelings of frustration or resentment. Be prepared to be sitting out "prime time" hour/s, as you wait for the last hour.
Consistency and a good attitude pay off. Last night when I arrived I told the organizer that guest who didn't dance was joining me to watch, so I suggested they give me a table set back a bit. They gave me a corner table in the second row, so my guest could sit "back", while I sat at the end of the row, more visible to the dance floor. But after my guest had been there around 20 minutes, the organizer came and gestured forcefully to me to move to a front-row seat that someone had liberated. My guest was fine with my moving up a row. Suddenly the invitations from top dancers started flowing. The organizer had again given me his stamp of approval in front of everyone, and made me more accessible for inviting.
Likewise, last Friday, i had made a reservation for about the 6th time at Yira Yira. The organizer recognized me on the phone and asked - for the first time, "Where would you like to sit, Helaine?" He had usually given me my own table or seated me with a few women against a wall, in the second row. But in past weeks I had noticed groups sitting at larger tables along the dance floor. I felt honored by his question. I told him that I don't mind sitting at a table with other women, and I'd like to be near the dance floor. When I arrived, he escorted me to my place (my name on a card) at a table for 4-5, with my chair right up against the dance floor. In that spot, invitations flowed to me all night, and I danced only with tangueros of my choice.
So when you identify a milonga that you like, become a loyal attendee, and be friendly, respectful and appreciative toward the organizers.
Bajo_cero2
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My point of view from the other side of the dance floor is the following:
1) we have girls we dance with for several years, some locals, many foreigners. First we are going to dance with all of them.
If we have free time we might try a new girl.
So, i agree with you about staying late.
I also suggest to come to BA in low season because there is going to be the same men but a lot less girls.
2) good organizers give you a seat according to your hierarchy on the milonga. If you are nobody you don t get one on the first line.
We know that, so, we invite girls on the first line if we have to try luck with a newbie.
3) Hair: just think how unconfortable is to have your hair in our face.
4) earings, if they are big, they hurt our right eye.
5) nobody is going to invite somebody who looks nasty, upset or arrogant. Desperated neither.
6) patience.
7) show respect. We really get piss off when a foreigner behaves like they is at home (learn and follow the local etiquete):
A) dont stay talking on the dance floor when the tanda finishes. I normally hit at the head with candies to those men who do that. I cannot dance the next tanda if they stay on the dance floor.
B.) don t walk though the dance floor while people is dancing.
D) keep your heels on the floor;
D) wait for men on your seat;
C) etc
1) we have girls we dance with for several years, some locals, many foreigners. First we are going to dance with all of them.
If we have free time we might try a new girl.
So, i agree with you about staying late.
I also suggest to come to BA in low season because there is going to be the same men but a lot less girls.
2) good organizers give you a seat according to your hierarchy on the milonga. If you are nobody you don t get one on the first line.
We know that, so, we invite girls on the first line if we have to try luck with a newbie.
3) Hair: just think how unconfortable is to have your hair in our face.
4) earings, if they are big, they hurt our right eye.
5) nobody is going to invite somebody who looks nasty, upset or arrogant. Desperated neither.
6) patience.
7) show respect. We really get piss off when a foreigner behaves like they is at home (learn and follow the local etiquete):
A) dont stay talking on the dance floor when the tanda finishes. I normally hit at the head with candies to those men who do that. I cannot dance the next tanda if they stay on the dance floor.
B.) don t walk though the dance floor while people is dancing.
D) keep your heels on the floor;
D) wait for men on your seat;
C) etc
I am glad to see some discussion of tango on this site and that people are finding their groove. I have my own opinions about the differences between milongueros and bailarins but like someone said before, we dont have to agree.
I would like to ask for your help.
A friend and I have started a website to help people find milongas to attend here and when they travel to different places. The idea is for it to be a review site (similar to Yelp or Giua Oleo) we are just getting started and have lots of ideas to make the website truly useful so we welcome comments and constructive criticisms but what we really need is for people to write reviews.
Please check out the site and let us know what you think and leave a review for the milongas you have visited recently.
http://quesigalamilonga.com
thanks in advance, here's wishing you many blissful tandas!
I would like to ask for your help.
A friend and I have started a website to help people find milongas to attend here and when they travel to different places. The idea is for it to be a review site (similar to Yelp or Giua Oleo) we are just getting started and have lots of ideas to make the website truly useful so we welcome comments and constructive criticisms but what we really need is for people to write reviews.
Please check out the site and let us know what you think and leave a review for the milongas you have visited recently.
http://quesigalamilonga.com
thanks in advance, here's wishing you many blissful tandas!
