Temporary Rental Agreements..LegalIncreases $$$

[sergio]

I was just talking to my Argentine wife on these lines the other day. It is not a rule, but I think you are right for the most part. I was astonished by the lack of negotiation skills found in general. In example, and not to hijack the thread, I am into collectibles (a lot of useless stuff) and sometimes they see you as a "foreigner" sothey ask 300% what they just asked my wife 2 mins ago. When you try to "negotiate" something you usually get a "te pensas que soy boludo" statement of some sort, not a second offer, nothing. Usually ZERO value is given on building a client-customer relationship and it happens with everything from used cars, to renting, everything is according to "la cara del cliente" too

There are exceptions tho, there are a couple of guys that while not the cheapest I always kept going back to (like I go to their store once a week) and sometimes I even walk in and have a coffee with the owner and I don't need to buy anything. I know that when he finds something interesting he will call me first, and I will make him an offer, then he'll probably come with some other number and we "negotiate" something that is fair for both parts... no hard feeling of any kinds towards each other for saying "hey I'm not comfy with that number, what about X"... and that is why I take my business there.

As far as renting goes, I was just announced mine will go from 2.4k to 3.8k AR$ when my current contract expires within a few months. I think they are trying to take advantage of the fact that we are having a baby boy in 2 weeks and we won't be able to hunt for another appartment fast enough. They KNOW they have guaranteed business with me and I was never late, apt is in much better condition because we did some improvements, we have a great relationship with everybody else in the building... and yet they will try to squeeze a little more out of us :/

Yes, this is the culture and I would say that it IS a rule. A rule with some exceptions, of course. There are always exceptions but it is a rule. That's my point. Expats have to live with it.

The level of resentment toward western expats, especially Americans, is strong. It is assumed that you have a lot of money and that you SHOULD pay more. Here is one of many real life examples: American walks into real estate agency in Recoleta. Sees a property he is interested in. Says he could offer $5,000 less than the asking price. Real estate agent says "no way" and REFUSES to take offer to owner. Agent comments "ANY American can get an extra $5,000"! American answers: "Not this one. What I am offering is already over my budget". American leaves office. A few weeks later he passes the agency and sees that the property he was interested in had sold. He sends an Argentine friend in to make some inquiries and find out how much it sold for. Answer: It sold for LESS than the American was willing to pay. The agent preferred to cut his nose off to spite himself rather than make any concessions to the foreign buyer. I've seen this over and over in real estate and business in general. It's probably more of an Argentine thing, very mixed up with arrogance, than a Latin style.

 

[solerboy]

My partner, who is Cuban always tells me to hide in the bedroom when we have tradespeople around. To keep the price down.

 

[GS_Dirtboy]

It sounds like your landlord is a pretty good negotiator. The first step in any negotiation is to be prepared to walk away. It seems you've got nowhere to go and you have announced this fact to your landlord. BTW, are you on a 2 year contract? If so, a 50% increase after 2 years doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

Yep. And I suggest the second step in any negotiation is knowing whether it is best to negotiate for yourself or have someone negotiate on your behalf. That's why we have lawyers (and they are always telling their clients to shut up). If I had an Argentine friend come to the US to buy property I would negotiate for him/her. Here, I have Argentine friends who negotiate on my behalf in instances where I know, as an American, I'm walking in at a disadvantage.

 

[joeteixido]

... The agent preferred to cut his nose off to spite himself rather than make any concessions to the foreign buyer. I've seen this over and over in real estate and business in general. It's probably more of an Argentine thing, very mixed up with arrogance, than a Latin style.

One of my Argentine hobby friends calls this the "price of the Argentine pride". He says it is better for some vendors to loose business than being regarded as a "boludo" for not having taken the chance of charging extra.

Like if other vendor asks "how much did you charge the foreigner for the item?". "Just regular price". "Oh you are a boludo!!! you should have taken the chance... that price is nothing to them! do I have to teach you everything?". So he says they will rather part with the item for less to a local, just not to be regarded as a "boludo".

I say... "que boludo"

 

[Ashley]

I agree that if there is a waiting list for apartments in the building, you probably don't have much wiggle room and should be prepared to walk away. I think it also depends on how much you're paying. Maybe if you've been renting "for years" at a lower market rate, your landlord is just hitting you with the big increases all at once.
I don't think the hikes are exclusive to foreigners. We were hit with it when our two year contract ended last December (around 40% for the first year and another 20% or so for the second year). Problem is is that moving would be just as expensive because everything seems to have gone up that much.
No matter what you do, I'd insist on a contract (even a 6 month one) and if you think you can get something cheaper, have a look around...

 

[rrptownley]

Aye, Ive just dived into a two year contract after running out of dollars and having to pessify my old temporary rental agreement.
In Dollars it was an excellent deal, not so in pesos at the celeste rate.

I'm ambivalent about the deal we have now for our two year contract. This year's rate is acceptable (we could have searched longer for a better price), but the 20% raise on the second year has me wincing. This seems pretty standard though.

To the OP: I think the problem is your temporary rental agreement is in pesos. As we know, everyone here has inflation and exchange rates on a daily ticker and are constantly looking to adjust prices to save them their investment. On the other-hand the dollar is seen as a benchmark staple that has magical inert qualities. I've seen this in rental prices, where dollar prices have stayed frozen for a year, while peso prices have jumped 40%.

My question: If we are to be paying 20% more on the rent next year, but say inflation jumps to 40% (heaven forbid), will our contract hold true and we will actual be paying less value on our rent? Or will the agency try to adjust?

 

[syngirl]

My question: If we are to be paying 20% more on the rent next year, but say inflation jumps to 40% (heaven forbid), will our contract hold true and we will actual be paying less value on our rent? Or will the agency try to adjust?

The agency will adjust. The second year of the contract is when owners will say that they need to adjust for inflation etc

 

[el_expatriado]

One of my Argentine hobby friends calls this the "price of the Argentine pride". He says it is better for some vendors to loose business than being regarded as a "boludo" for not having taken the chance of charging extra.

Like if other vendor asks "how much did you charge the foreigner for the item?". "Just regular price". "Oh you are a boludo!!! you should have taken the chance... that price is nothing to them! do I have to teach you everything?". So he says they will rather part with the item for less to a local, just not to be regarded as a "boludo".

I say... "que boludo"

This is true. You have to know how to negotiate with Argentines. Argentine real estate agents are the most unethical traitorous real estate agents in the whole world. When I started buying properties my Argentine business partners told me how to make the offer.

Here's a quick lesson in properly negotiating to buy (or rent) any property in Argentina. The Agent makes their commission based on the price you close. If you are trying to buy a $200,000 property and you want to knock off $5000 off the asking price, that means an agent with a 5% commission is getting $250 less.

So from the very start you need to tell the agent that you are willing to make up the difference in his commission. In fact, I would give a real low-ball offer like $20,000 below. The agent would lose $1000 on this if he worked the deal honestly. But I tell the agent that not only will I make up his $1000 that he lost, but I offer him an extra $1000 if he can close the deal as-is. If the property owner tries to go for something in the middle like $10,000 below, I make up the $500 to the agent (you always pay the agent's commission on the asking price), but I don't give him the $1000 bonus payment for closing at my price.

Now the real estate agent is working for me instead of the owner. So he calls the owner and the conversation goes something like this... He tells him that a miracle has happened... this crazy yanqui foreigner is going to buy his property. He better take the offer quick because it is been really slow lately and no one is buying properties right now. Oh, and don't even bother trying to counter offer. I already negotiated this $20,000 discount up from a $30,000 discount that the crazy yanqui offered at first. This is the best deal possible, so let's close it quick!

In the USA or anywhere else where people have ethics this kind of deal would never fly, but Argentine real estate agents are traitorous and they do this kind of thing all the time. You need to know how to play the game their way if you expect to live and do business here.

What happens is a lot of Americans are used to the system where the seller pays all the real estate costs, so they try to avoid paying the real estate commission or negotiate with the agent so they charge him less of a commission to buy and that's the wrong approach. You need to get the agent on your side. That's why I would never use an Argentine agent to sell a property. I don't trust them enough to bring me the full offer. I'm always paranoid they are negotiating something else with the buyer. I prefer to sell the property myself and speak directly with the buyer so I can get the maximum offer possible with no one in the middle who might cheat me.

The only time I have sold with agents is with an American real estate agent who was representing an American buyer and we did everything the US way. But there's no way I would sell with an Argentine real estate agent.

 

[GS_Dirtboy]

This is true. You have to know how to negotiate with Argentines. Argentine real estate agents are the most unethical traitorous real estate agents in the whole world. When I started buying properties my Argentine business partners told me how to make the offer.

el expatriado is exactly right. I'm arm-pit deep in this business. We only use expat real estate agents in one office that we have found to do things the "US way." There is no back-side deals, everything is above board, and they work their a$$es off for the seller or buyer. My apologies to all of my Argentine friends, but we have yet to find an Argentine agent that does any of this. Often, they don't even have a license. They "use" the license of the office. As always, your mileage may vary.

 

[snowwhitebum]

If you do not like it move out.

You rent month to month, maybe the landlord would prefer a tenant with a longer term contract, providing more security.

It's his/her apartment and you want to dictate the terms?

Withholding the rent, legal advice?