pauper
Registered
- Joined
- May 27, 2009
- Messages
- 1,557
- Likes
- 2,029
Can't we debate this calmly and politely on a basis of facts rather than personal attacks?
The search function will answer your question.
Can't we debate this calmly and politely on a basis of facts rather than personal attacks?
I regret to have to say, as I indicated above, that steveninbsas is the one who is factually challenged.
In some ways, I agree. So point it out to him calmly. Be the one who's factual and rational in the face of Libertarian pipe dreams and nonsense. Steve is obviously a very good-hearted person, look how hard he tries to help people with practical issues, he is always there to answer questions and give good tips. If he's a bit of a dreamer, well, that's no mortal sin, is it? Look to his undeniably good intentions and not at his socio-economic delusions.
Now comes the part I'm going to dispute. Obama is not a collectivist, by any stretch of the imagination. He is purely a tool of the corporations, a groveling minion of the ultra-rich magnates. A puppet, una muñequita. If he was a Socialist, we would at least have had a public option, or better yet true universal healthcare. But he didn't even try to negotiate, instead he sold us down the river to the HMO's, and took his thirty pieces of silver.
What really cracks me up about this is that people think if you disagree with Obama's approach, you hate him. If you think his health care plan, which was forced through Congress in a way completely opposite to how Obama ran his first election campaign (remember Pelosi's statement about digging under or jumping over the fence or parachuting in WHATEVER it takes to get the bill passed and compare that with Obama's "I'm going to be completely open and above-board during my tenure" [paraphrased]) is a bad thing, regardless of whether you think universal health care is good or bad, you hate Obama. You're a racist and an obstructionist. And some of the people I see who take that stance here, in this forum, are supposedly so open-minded and tolerant. Heh. Saying one thing and doing another doesn't give anyone moral superiority...
...I fully support the Republicans' every effort to try to have kept Obama Care from passing, and for trying to repeal it now. I fully support any party who would take the issue forward with openness and true dialog to find a common solution, and get away from rhetoric that means nothing. NOT something that was thrown together in the first 6 months of a new president's term and pushed through in a hurry before the first mid-term elections because he knew he'd lose his super majority.
...But what the hell - I'm a marginalized Libertarian who doesn't agree with what either party is doing and am put down as "Ayn's man" or a Tea Bagger. What a country. What a populace. See any similarities to Argentina and Peronism maybe?
Shame on you all. Both sides.
What REALLY chaps my ass are the people who bitched about Bush and his way of forcing things through (including the PATRIOT act, which I think is absolutely abhorrent) and support what Obama is doing, in the wake of a large majority of US citizens who DON'T WANT IT.