The Argentine Universities' Debt To Their Country.

[Ries]

I also think the US rate of 82% includes GED's.
There is, as far as I know, nothing like that here.
I have a GED- I got in a fight with my high school 2 weeks before graduation, and they refused to graduate me.
a month later, I took a few tests, and got a High School Equivalency Degree.
I later went to 2 different Universities, in the USA and Canada, as well as going to Los Angeles Trade Tech at nights to learn machining.
All without a real secondary school graduation paper.
This is common in the USA- you can simply take a test, which is not hard, and get into many colleges, especially state schools.

The argentine system is much more rigorous.

Also- UBA is designed to weed out a large percentage of enrollees, by having large, impersonal classes, and heavy work loads that are very dependent on initiative and being a self motivated student.
This is intentional, but it directly affects the poor and the lower scorers and the kids from substandard provincial schools the most.

To change this is possible, but it would require much more money, time, and a complete revamping of the entire university.
It probably would also require actually paying professors.
I have several friends who teach at UBA- and they make less at that job than they would driving a taxi or working in a kiosko.
All have other jobs- one teaches at 3 or 4 different universities at a time- this is common. Rosario, La Plata, and at private colleges.
Most have full time careers, in addition to teaching.
This works ok for assigning broad projects to 300 kids- it would not work well if you needed to meet with 20 kids 3 days a week, and spend a lot of time grading and coaching and tutoring, which is much more common in US colleges. I know US professors who have 7 grad students- that is their entire teaching load.
And UBA professors who teach seminars for 600.

The system COULD serve lower income students- but it will not be easy, as the changes will have to be massive, and expensive.

 

[Noesdeayer]

So let's not even try? Beatriz Sardo doesn't believe so.
It will not be easy but ,very hopefully, it COULD happen or begin to happen so that a university which is supposed to be free for all can become that in truth
and not just an inexpensive way for the children of the elite and other higher income groups to educate themelves at the expense of others who can't afford not to work and spend most of their day at "la facu".
In my almost 40 years in Argentina I have had several clients who were professors in the UBA .Many of them felt that they had to give so much education for so very little $$ because they themselves received their education previously.in the same manner and that it looked good on their own curriculum.They were professors in the exact sciences and medicine from 1985 until about 2005.Some of the most disconcerting views came from the doctors.One who told me in about 1998 himself a Dep't Head at El Hospital de Niños
."En la UBA entra una vaca y sale medico"---In UBA a cow goes in and comes out a doctor".
I fail to believe that the bulk of the Argentine people are ready to throw in the towel on this---They surely deserve much more faith in their desire for constructive change.

 

[Ries]

I am not saying that they should not try.
I am merely talking about the real situation.

I think there is plenty of room for improvement.

The professors I know are mostly arts and design- and they are not like the ones you describe at all.
They give a lot to their students.
Some actually employ students during and after school- for instance, as architects.
Students from UBA helped design the CCK (or CCMacri, I guess its called now) which is one of the most important architectural projects in South America in the last decade.
If you havent been to see a concert there- GO!- the building, the acoustics, and the programming are all incredible.

Some help their students present their work beyond the context of the university-
For instance this event, which is organized by my friend Andrea Saltzman, helps launch her indumentaria graduates into the world, with an annual show at the hippodromo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT5KRZzakpQ
A lot of the Argentine fashion industry is produced by former students at UBA.
And they provide jobs, and export.

So there is certainly a lot good going on at UBA.
But I would agree, it could be much better.

 

[Noesdeayer]

Ries.
"UBA "it could be much better".
Let's all get together with Beatriz to pay down this debt to an entire society.

 

[Ries]

How?
Seriously, even if one were a citizen, which I am not, what could you do?
Write a letter?
Bang on pots and pans?
I cannot imagine that I could change the policies of the University of Washington, in Seattle, for example, even though I live nearby.
Beyond voting, of course.
How could the average argentine, or expat, persuade Beatriz to change UBA?
I do talk to my friends who teach there, and believe me, they have ideas how it could be better.
A couple of them have been department heads, at various times.
Even from the inside, its kind of like pushing that proverbial boulder up the hill.

 

[Noesdeayer]

Here's how Guillermo Marijuan,a federal judge has statred doing it just today.He is demanding that the 55 Argentine Universities
account for each peso of the AR$ 747 million ( approximately U$D 50 million) doled out to them during the Kirchner administration.About 70% of wich went to the Flor de Ceibo colleges created by Kristina.All of which except 2 are under investigation.
This should be enough of the "debt repayment issue for the moment.

 

[Ries]

as soon as I become a federal judge, I will do the same.