`the Death of America - 21/01/10 - R.I.P.

ElQueso said:
Is it because to the left, the end always justifies the means because they are obviously "right" about everything, for our own good?

You hit the nail on the head.

This behavior is a common (perhaps even defining) trait among leftists/liberals in every country. It never ceases to amaze me how freedom, democracy, laws, etc. are only to be respected when doing so agrees with their agenda.

Neil
 
Hey cheeseman, "obviously a ruling"...... call it what you want, I don't give a flyin' f*ck what you CALL it, what the label is..... I care what the realistic outcome will be. The REALISTIC OUTCOME will be that giant corporations will now be responsible for who ends up in power, PLAIN AND SIMPLE (don't complicate it with your verbal masturbations por favor). Listen up you 2 brain dead omelettes (denver and stink cheese) - "Remember the golden rule - he who has the gold rules" !!! Get it boys? It's ALL ABOUT the cash and who has it.... Listen you wild kids, I can't intellectually return to where you're going so try to comprehend this THIS TIME !!! Don't take this personally but this just SO proves my point that there is no group on this planet with less smarts in their little brains than your modern day Americans - you 2 with your beyond simple logic tied into your single digit I.Q.'s have put giant smiles on amoeba's near and far all over the world. Bravo - Keep up the good work..... Dudester
 
Dudester said:
Hey cheeseman, "obviously a ruling"...... call it what you want, I don't give a flyin' f*ck what you CALL it, what the label is..... I care what the realistic outcome will be. The REALISTIC OUTCOME will be that giant corporations will now be responsible for who ends up in power, PLAIN AND SIMPLE (don't complicate it with your verbal masturbations por favor). Listen up you 2 brain dead omelettes (denver and stink cheese) - "Remember the golden rule - he who has the gold rules" !!! Get it boys? It's ALL ABOUT the cash and who has it.... Listen you wild kids, I can't intellectually return to where you're going so try to comprehend this THIS TIME !!! Don't take this personally but this just SO proves my point that there is no group on this planet with less smarts in their little brains than your modern day Americans - you 2 with your beyond simple logic tied into your single digit I.Q.'s have put giant smiles on amoeba's near and far all over the world. Bravo - Keep up the good work..... Dudester

Being a modern American I suppose it's an expression of collective ignorance if I bother to quote our First Amendment and point out that it says "Congress shall make no law…abridging the freedom of speech." It does not say by whom or what form than speech takes. Moreover, I'd clearly be a fool to point out that most corporations are small and they out number larger corporations; corporation are really easy to setup. Hell, I have one.

I'd be a damn fool to point out that money only rarely wins elections in the US.

I'm also a moron, apparently, because I don't think the right to free speech obliges me, or anyone else, to listen. Funny that.

Lastly, I'm a nitwit because I'd rather have campaign spending done by the private sector (decentralized) than by the government (centralized). Just consider what campaigns would look like if they were funded with tax payer dollars, like some have suggested. This would make gerrymandering seem like the work of Angels.

I'm sure that you -- not being an American -- are sophisticated enough to understand that just because we American morons and are willing to defend freedom of speech, generally speaking, we are not accepting of corporatism. I know, I know... two ideas seemingly at odds with each other in one brain. Luckily for you, you belong to a High IQ nationally-defined collective and have been endowed by with their superior gifts which we see on display here, so non of what I've said should be difficult for you.

Orwellian, this is your queue to chime in with one of your cheap-shot one liners.
 
I have nothing to say other than to confirm that you are indeed a nitwit if you don't see how private campaign spending and lobbying is bad for democracy.
 
orwellian said:
I have nothing to say other than to confirm that you are indeed a nitwit if you don't see how private campaign spending and lobbying is bad for democracy.

And this, my friends, is what those bereft of real arguments resort to.


Never wrestle with a pig... you'll both get dirty, and only the pig will enjoy it.
 
Businesses are owned by private people. In the States, anyone can become a corporate owner under this presumption and pay to have his or her voice heard. As also stated, since corporations are seen as entities with rights, the ruling also applies to individuals with money, and also other organizations with money.

Unions will now have the same rights as well. As much as I despise unions (another subject), I 100% support their right to spend their money how they see fit to get their point across to 300 million people as well. Organizations like Greenpeace, whom I also despise (yet another subject), will also be ablet o preach their crap close to the end of an election, and I support that 100%.

I would MUCH RATHER these groups (any group, really) air their thoughts in public, than go behind the scenes and try to talk our politicians into doing things for them, and giving them little treats, vacations, what-have-you. PACs are much worse than what we are talking about here, but I don't see anyone decrying the end of the States due to these creations and they have been around a lot longer than the recent Supreme Court ruling that is in such dispute here.

You can't just "pick sides" and say "you over there get freedom x but you over here don't." That's not the rule of law. That's actually a dictatorship.

Do you guys even know what the ruling (yes Dudester, look up the word - that's what it was. Maybe you are too young yet to understand the concept of something like "precedent" and "rulings" work related to the law - in most countries, not just the US) was related to? It was at the bottom of the Huffington article Dudester linked to, but gee - Dudester, that's so much to read! I know it was tough for you...

A group of CITIZENS got together and made a documentary to show some of the things that they didn't like about Hillary Clinton. They wanted to show the documentary on cable channels. Some judge said "gee, that looks too much like a campaign add and it should be regulated like one."

Turns out that Hillary Clinton, being the idiot that she is, showed enough people wha she was really like that it didn't matter that the documentary wasn't aired during the compaign. But I want to see information on both sides to give me enough information to figure out who I want to vote for.

Does it mean that the information is allowed to be FALSE? Hell no! So who fears the truth? Only those who know the truth will destroy them. All others who are telling lies need to be brought to justice for their lies. There is nothing in that ruling that prevents that from happening.

Is it less than perfect? Is it possible that a lie could cause a problem with an election? Absolutely. But if such happens, the consequences should be severe.

But because it's less than perfect does that mean we should keep information from coming to the public by some arbitrary means like the court case in question? Hell no. That's censorship and limiting of freedoms.

But I don't expect unthinking idiots like Dudester to understand the difference anyway - certainly he is incapable of actual critical thinking.

If Dudester's not from the States, I give huge thanks because the more idiots like that in the States, the more likely the death of the States is to be true.

At least Orwellian, although in my opinion not right about some things, can argue a point without resorting to non-argument, child-like idiocies like Dudester does. But that's how children often act. Maybe he'll grow up one day, who knows?

It's funny - As far apart as Orwellian and I seem to be on some things, the ability to argue coherently has allowed us to see how alike we are in other regards, like the human global warming and AIDS fallacies as an example.

When people like Dudester open their mouths, it just makes matters worse because there is so much child-like temper-tantrum balled up in whatever he has to say.

But Dudester, I support your right to be an idiot and expose such idiocy in public speech 100%.
 
objectiveous said:
And this, my friends, is what those bereft of real arguments resort to.


Never wrestle with a pig... you'll both get dirty, and only the pig will enjoy it.

As related to Orwelian's retort, I have to say I was quite disappointed myself to see such a lack of argument.
 
objectiveous said:
And this, my friends, is what those bereft of real arguments resort to.


Never wrestle with a pig... you'll both get dirty, and only the pig will enjoy it.

You wanted a cheap one liner and I gave it to you. Then you have the audacity to complain about it. Jeez, some people will never be happy...

Is no one surprised of all name calling that is allowed in this thread? I don't think I have ever seen a thread with so much slander before here at baexpats.
 
And BTW - just so those who read this don't misunderstand - I am NOT a "Republican", nor a "Conservative." Neither am I a "Democrat" nor a "Liberal". NEITHER am I an "Independent" in anything except the party definitions of those who vote in US elections; that is, I am not registered with either "mainstream" party in the US.

I AM a Libertarian.

I think both the Democrats and Republicans have huge problems and that both are leading the US down the toilet. I just resent the lack of logic and reason (or even argument) that Dudester makes to present his case.

I hate what Bush did to the country internally and externally. I hate equally what Obama is trying to do. I also know that the Democrats and Republicans both (and financial institutions around the world, btw, not just in the US) were all equally responsible for the world-wide economic mess we find ourselves in.

I think one of the best US presidents in recent history was Clinton, because even though he started off far to the left like Obama, he quickly moved to the center when he realized he wouldn't be able to get anyhting done if he stayed far-left, and instead guided the US down the middle. Of course, laws pushed through during Clinton's time, primarily by Democrats, related to forcing financial institutions to give low-interest loans to poor people who couldn't afford to pay back the loans, had some culpability in the crisis (a percentage, not completely).

I believe in personal freedom and responsiblity. I do not believe in government-sponsored welfare or just about anything else that most governments do nowadays. I am a firm believer in letting the populace sink or swim via their own methods, and the only thing the government should do is create a framework in which that can happen, ENFORCE that framework properly so that it is equal to EVERYONE, and other than that get the hell out of the way.

That includes things like legalization of drugs, gay marriage, whatever the hell does not hurt OTHER people, as examples of many "liberal" desires (depending on whether they have been tainted by Religion on top of whatever political beliefs they profess, that is). Sometimes "whatever does not hurt others" is difficult to define, but I believe it should be kept as difficult as possible to define because governments ALWAYS end up wanting to control its population and people should ALWAYS fight against giving ANYTHING to the government.

I am absolutely 100% AGAINST the dealth penalty. The smallest possibility that even one innocent person can be put to death makes the entire concept invalid, because a government and human beings are far from infallible.

In the Declaration of Independence of the US, there was written a phrase which summed up pretty good what I think SHOULD be guaranteed by a government:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Life and Liberty are pretty obvious, although it can be argued exactly how far that goes (but see above comment about allowing governments anything).

However, "Pursuit of Happiness" is a lot less ambiguous than many might think. Too many people read that as "Guarantee of Happiness."

It takes work, firm belief in oneself, and fighting against tyranny in all forms to guarantee the right to pursue happiness. The true opiate of the masses in this day and age is the fallcy that any government or institution can guarantee anyone except those in power happiness.
 
It was Clinton who was president during the dot-com bubble. The dot-com bubble led to the housing bubble during George Bush. Which lead us to the current mess with Obama.

ELQueso, you are forgetting that all these presidents all work for the same people. They are all puppets. What they do they have been ordered to.
 
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