The death of the Euro

[French jurist]

The European Union countries can freely adopt the Euro currency if they want to. Some countries opted to stay out, like UK, Denmark and Sweden.
The Euro has always been a bad idea and am glad I voted no

Definitely not. EU countries except for DK and UK (they obtained derogations back in 1992) are obligated to adopt it as a currency once they meet the convergence criterias.
The ten countries that entered the EU in 2004 got obligated too when signing the treaty that made them join the Union.

Countries can freely decide of the calendar though, but they are obliged to do it.

 

[bigbadwolf]

Euro is the official currency of the European Union, all members of the EU, except for DK and UK are legally bound to adopt it as a currency once they meet certain criterias (Greece lied to meet those criterias btw).

A monetary union by itself makes scant sense -- and particularly with countries with a tradition of corrupt government, fake statistics, and uncompetitive economies like the Club Med countries (PIGS). What is needed is fiscal union, common-debt union, a tighter federal structure. Monetary union can only be the first step towards this and by itself has no meaning. But first kick out the Third-World Europe countries. A Mitteleuropa, a Nordic Unon, will emerge sooner or later without having the albatross of these corrupt and incompetent countries around its neck. Germany, France, Benelux, Scandinavia, Austria.

 

[French jurist]

It's a subject that could be discussed for days.

Let's not forget that the EU is too a vast spiritual/philosophical project (unlike the Mercosur for example which only limits itself to concrete measures).

 

[nico_xover]

the euro helps stabilise the european economy a lot. just think about all the exchange rate risk that doesn't exist for companies in european inter-trade anymore. ever since the crisis the british politicians secretly regret that they didn't join the euro.

besides, california has been on the verge of bankrupcy for years now, and how strongly has it affected the dollar? not forgetting that california is way more important to the US economy than greece is to the euro-zone.

posts like that of moonwitch i don't even want to comment...worse than the USSR, yes sure...just think of all the gulags they build everywhere in europe

 

[perry]

Thanks to those who started this interesting thread and my thoughts concur with the below letter succinctingly expressed by Christos

"All men of power here, get their power from plundering the Greek people, or having connections with those that do it."


by Christos
(for www.henrymakow.com)



I am 26 years old and live in Greece. I am writing this letter in order to let you know about a new law in Greece announced yesterday.

The financial minister of Greece announced yesterday that from 1/1/2011 all financial transactions of sums above 1500 euros in cash, will be banned. For any transaction above 1500 euros, only credit cards and checks will be legal. The formal explanation for this law is it will combat those who do not pay taxes. But we all know this is not the case...

It seems the new world order wants to make Greece a testing ground for their new laws. For the past months, Greece have been attacked without mercy. We have been called liars, frauds, cheaters, thieves. They are threatening us constantly with banning from the euro zone and default. [These charges are] not true. ... The problem is, based on their accusations and (the virtual) bad situation of Greek finances, they will pass their experimental laws of their new world order.

The fairly new Government of the socialist party, elected 4 months ago, forgot all its promises, and is determined to pass laws giving citizenship to illegal immigrants after 5 years, without any trade-off. We are 10 million Greeks here, and almost 3 million mostly illegal immigrants, who will obtain Greek nationality and will gain the right to bring their families here too... In Pakistan there are even ads saying "for 5000 euros we get you to Greece, to study free, work, make families, and obtain EU passports"...

And now this... The previous government created a new ID card, to collect data from people since childbirth. This government will ban transactions in cash over 1500 euros, in order to make all of us have credit cards. The obvious first step is to ban all cash transactions, then merge this new ID card with the credit system, then, well.... insert this merged ID card into our bodies...

Our peoples' morale is low, society is disorganized because of immigration and propaganda, and we will not fight those laws. You people living in the Western World, be prepared because they are planning the same for you!

BACKGROUND

I will try to give you my personal view of the conditions in Greece.

First of all, there is no trust in politicians. Most people distrust them and know they are scum, but continue to vote for the same people in every election. This happens because they promise privileges in order to get votes. Most politicians are members of secret societies, and have close ties to USA and European elites. Our current prime minister is even an American citizen...

A young man living in Greece and having no connections, is hopeless. Without connections, he will have major difficulties if he wants to join a good University(or complete his studies without bribes), if he wants to find a job, or create his own. He will be forced to join the army while privileged young men with connections will illegally avoid it.

And there is no point discussing finding love... Of course pretty women will pick wealthier men, but in Greece even women of moderate appearance prefer men with deep pockets. They prefer sharing the top men than having a man only for themselves.

And the top men in Greece are all frauds. Greece, apart from some natural resources and its tourism industry, produces nothing of value. Corruption is so big, that all productive forces are drowned. So all men of power here, get their power from plundering the Greek people, or having connections with those that do it. Women (and their families) of course are not concerned about that. As long as someone is wealthy, he is desirable, and value as a person is irrelevant.

Despite poor economic condition (but not so desperate as to warrant dire measures), people in power take pleasure in attacking traditional customs, Orthodox Christianity, and traditional Greek patriots. They protect illegal immigrants, and silence their crimes. They attack Christianity, in the media, at schools etc. They are removing all Christian symbols from public places.

MEDIA

Greek media are a pile of garbage. For the biggest part of the day, most major TV networks will show shows discussing greek "vips" lifestyle, sexual relations etc. There are few "political" shows and news shows, all trying to cover the truth and turn the attention of the people at matters of trivial importance. Propaganda is blatant. The previous government was literally destroyed by TV networks. They promoted heavily the current government, so strongly that previous prime minister was forced to make new elections despite being only for 2 years in government.

Current prime minister made promises, NONE of which kept after being elected. Only a few days after election, he went on with the plans of New World Order. He created an artificially dire financial situation, in order to be able to pass whatever laws he wanted, plus giving his friends some money... He "cooked" our budget, by moving payments of 2010 in 2009 and incomes from 2009 to 2010, in order to both make our deficit bigger and be able to claim in 2010 that he "improved" our economy... This doesn't mean that our previous prime minister wasn't a puppet, just that he wasn't able to fulfill New World Order directions like the new government.

Huge economic scandals are discovered every day, and buried by Greek propaganda media. And most honest people are so concerned with working 2 and 3 jobs in order to feed their families, that cannot fight this corruption. Greek people work on average many more hours weekly than other EU countries, get much less pay, and pay more for the same products. And because of the traitors in government, EU newspapers and media call our people lazy. They say we need to work even more and receive even less... Of course this is not true. The plunder of Greek people has been made with their assistance. But this is a long subject and i wont go on with it.


CONCLUSION

In a few words... Life in Greece sucks. Since I am a computer programmer, i have many times thought about leaving for a better country and make my living there. But i do not want to abandon my home... yet. I would be willing to fight this system, but i see no point since the system is so well entrenched it cannot be tackled by a few men alone.

The reason i wrote you my previous letter is because this new law of banning cash transactions above 1500 euros is just another step towards cashless society, and is being implemented in Greece as a testing phase. I strongly believe it is a matter of time before most western nations see similar laws.

 

[Matt84]

It's very interesting what's happening in Europe these days. I can't help but remember Maggie's NO NO NO Speech and grin in satisfaction.

It's a subject that could be discussed for days.
Let's not forget that the EU is too a vast spiritual/philosophical project (unlike the Mercosur for example which only limits itself to concrete measures).

Alo Juriste Française et un moment:

Remember that (pretty much like Mercosur) the EU began as the Rhur Coal and Steel Agreement with France, Germany and the Benelux, 50 years ago. A concrete measure that would only gradually (some would say sneakily) evolved into what would be a Federation.

I understand that traditionally, National Sovereigty is the facto defined when the 'country' achieves both a military and a currency. Europe's future as a single country is being contested as we speak.

I love that you raised the philosophical issue, I'd like to openly explore what is the EU's philosophical foundation, and discuss its merits.

 

[orwellian]

the euro helps stabilise the european economy a lot. just think about all the exchange rate risk that doesn't exist for companies in european inter-trade anymore. ever since the crisis the british politicians secretly regret that they didn't join the euro.

So how is it stabilizing the European economy now with Greece on the verge of bankruptcy? And how is it difficult to exchange money in todays world with computers? And British politicians are regretting it how? If anything the euro-zone countries should be regretting letting Greece in because now they're stuck having to bail them out.

besides, california has been on the verge of bankrupcy for years now, and how strongly has it affected the dollar? not forgetting that california is way more important to the US economy than greece is to the euro-zone.

Well the dollar has taken quite a dive lately. Although it is also the world's reserve currency so it's a bit more complicated than that. Also, the euro has lost 10% of it's value against the dollar since November if I am not mistaken.

 

[Moonwitch]

Definitely not. EU countries except for DK and UK (they obtained derogations back in 1992) are obligated to adopt it as a currency once they meet the convergence criterias.
The ten countries that entered the EU in 2004 got obligated too when signing the treaty that made them join the Union.

Countries can freely decide of the calendar though, but they are obliged to do it.

Oh yes, they aren't free to choose to whether to accept the Euro or not. Essentially the new countries that joined in 2004 were forced to accept the currency. It wouldn't surprise me if Blair and Brown made a secret agreement to join the Euro behind the back of British citizens. Who really knows what is in store now the Lisbon Treaty has been signed?

 

[Moonwitch]

I've always said Greece shouldn't have been allowed in the EU, the Greek economy has always been a mess. Even with the new eastern European countries, they are still one of the weakest links in the EU.

 

[French jurist]

Even with the new eastern European countries, they are still one of the weakest links in the EU.

Would you prefer the Americans to influence the eastern european countries alone ?
I find it great many are joining the EU, where they belong.